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Backing up VM installed from 3CX Debian ISO

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TigerTech

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A contractor installed 3CX for us this past summer, using the Debian ISO to install on a VMware VM. What we didn't realize at the time is that installing VMware Tools, which I believe is necessary to get a good VM backup with Veeam, would render our system un-upgradeable through the normal 3CX update process as well as unsupported. Unless I'm missing something our options seem to be
  • Install VMware Tools anyway, be unsupported, apply OS upgrades on our own and hope they go well
  • Run backups without VMware Tools (I doubt this would produce usable backups - does anyone know?)
  • Migrate 3CX data to a new VM running Windows or Debian from their ISO and install VMware Tools
  • Don't backup the VM at all, instead relying on 3CX's own data backups; in the case of server failure recovery would take longer as 3CX would have to be installed first
Am I missing any options? Any advice?
 
Part of the answer would be in how concerned you are in all of the details of a running system. For example if you have a lot of critical recordings, voicemails left on the system, CDR data, etc.
Restoring a new 3CX system in the event of a crash - from say a nightly backup would cause data loss of that type of data. If you are simply concerned about the system configuration - then the restore from a 3CX backup would work fine. Just need to get the system backup - and in operations - and not concerned about the data. You could BTW - have a 3CX Virtual installed to the point of being ready for the restore of a backup. That is right to the point where the initial wizard on port 5015 is ready to go. That would save some time.
As to if a Veeam backup is good - depends on how well the DB used by 3CX handles crashes. Taking a Veeam backup without tools is similar to what happens with a system that is just randomly rebooted. Assuming again you have more critical data that you want to minimize data loss - installing the VmWare tools probably has to happen.
 
Thanks for your reply. I had actually forgotten to mention the other half of our dilemma caused by the lack of VMware Tools. In the event of a power failure we need to be able to shut down our VMs gracefully, then power down the host. The graceful shutdown can't happen without Tools installed. In retrospect the inability of the Debian appliance to utilize even the minimal add-on of VMware Tools seems to make this option unsuitable for anyone who shares our concerns about the integrity of their system data.
 
My backup strategy for 3CX is a bit different to most servers.

Given the speed at which you can spin up a brand new 3CX install and restore your settings and data from the 3CX backup I just don't bother with a full VM backup and accept that I could lose up to a days worth of call recording / call logs. I reckon I could do a complete rebuild and restore in about 30 minutes (give or take).

That said, if you can't do without this functionality then couldn't you just ask whatever flavour of VMWare you use to suspend the VM in the event of a power failure to the UPS? That should take care of any data loss due to hard reset.

Alternatively, depending on your UPS ./ management software there may well be other solutions to pass through the power status to the VM and trigger a shutdown script.

All of that being said, what gives you the impression that installing VMWare Tools will render your install unupgradable (if there is such a word :D)?
 
That said, if you can't do without this functionality then couldn't you just ask whatever flavour of VMWare you use to suspend the VM in the event of a power failure to the UPS? That should take care of any data loss due to hard reset.

Alternatively, depending on your UPS ./ management software there may well be other solutions to pass through the power status to the VM and trigger a shutdown script.

All of that being said, what gives you the impression that installing VMWare Tools will render your install unupgradable (if there is such a word :D)?

We are using ESXi with vCenter. Right now the only method I know is to use APC's PowerChute to shut down the VMs, then the host. I don't know of any ways to take automated action on the VM without VMware Tools installed. If anyone can point me to info on options I'd appreciate it.

From https://www.3cx.com/docs/manual/installing-debian-linux-pbx/:
"We strongly recommend that you dedicate your Debian Linux instance to 3CX. Do not install other packages or change its configuration, as this prevents us from upgrading your operating system to a new version and providing support for your install."

It seems to me that the 3CX-supplied Debian ISO ought to come with or at least support VMware Tools for basic control and data security.
 
We are using ESXi with vCenter. Right now the only method I know is to use APC's PowerChute to shut down the VMs, then the host. I don't know of any ways to take automated action on the VM without VMware Tools installed. If anyone can point me to info on options I'd appreciate it.

From https://www.3cx.com/docs/manual/installing-debian-linux-pbx/:
"We strongly recommend that you dedicate your Debian Linux instance to 3CX. Do not install other packages or change its configuration, as this prevents us from upgrading your operating system to a new version and providing support for your install."

It seems to me that the 3CX-supplied Debian ISO ought to come with or at least support VMware Tools for basic control and data security.

That warning is really meant to stop you using the machine for other purposes (I've seen people ask questions on here about installing X Windows :eek:). Installing VMWare Tools is very unlikely to break your upgrade path. Of course if it did you could always uninstall tools, perform the OS upgrade and then reinstall tools but I doubt it would ever come to that.

That aside, if you're performing a machine suspend then I don't believe you need VMWare Tools installed as this is performed by host, not the VM. You could use a solution like this to do a shutdown or suspend: http://minkatec.com/configure-apc-powerchute-business-edition-server-shutdown-on-an-esxi-host/

However, if you use suspend be careful you have sufficient UPS capacity as suspending a VM usually takes a fair bit longer than a shutdown.
 
I might try installing Tools and see what happens. As you said I could always remove them. I'll see what I can work out. Thanks.
 
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