3CX running on HyperV will Skype work ?

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by PCBackup, Jul 6, 2009.

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  1. PCBackup

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    Hi,
    We are running 3cx on Hyper-V.
    Working fine (with some minorproblems) but for the Skype connection i read the following:

    “Audio drivers must be installed and configured correctly – this is a Skype pre-requisite.”

    Does this mean it wil not run on Hyper-V as it has no audio capabilities?

    Eric Krediet
    E.Krediet@PCBackup.nl
     
  2. Vali_3CX

    Vali_3CX Well-Known Member
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Hi, Eric

    Audio drivers are gateway pre-requisite because they are required by Skype, gateway itself doesn't need them.

    Regards
    vali
     
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  3. PCBackup

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    Thanks for your quick response, but I am not completely sure i understand your answer.

    Does it mean i can install the 3cx-gateway on our Hyper-V windows 2008 standard-server?
    And/or do i have to install the skype software on the server aswell

    THX

    Eric
     
  4. sipero123

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    Hi,

    You need to install the 3CX skype gateway and skype on the same server as 3CX

    As I understand it HyperV does not natively support sound devices which you MUST have for the skype program to work. Therefore this won't work.

    I have also tried to install a virtual sound driver/device but have been unable to get this to work either with Windows Server 2008. I was able to get it to work on a non-HyperV environment with Windows 2003 and XP Pro where the computer had no sound card/device

    This is the one I used http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html




    Jonathan Hamon
     
  5. Vali_3CX

    Vali_3CX Well-Known Member
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Hi Eric, Jonathan

    I have to clarify something which is a quite confusing: 3CX Gateway for Skype CAN be installed on a separate machine than the PBX is.
    Such kind of configuration should look as follows:
    - machine A: 3CX PBX
    - machine B: 3CX Gateway for Skype AND Skype (and audio drivers for Skype).

    It's obvious such configuration is possible, since the gateway allow you to specify a PBX address. The only restriction, at this moment, is that the two machines should be on the same intranet network, there is no STUN, tunnel support. Both IPs and names are supported.
    In fact, for performance reasons, as a developer I would encourage installing the gateway on a separate machine, whenever if possible.

    Back to Windows 2008 and Hyper-V, I told already on another topic, Win2008 server was the OS less tested, we encountered some communications issues between Skype and gateway, issues which needs to be checked deeper than we were able to do before releasing this Beta. From this point of view, I would not recommend to run gateway on Win2008. On the other hand, I would appreciate if you run it and provide us some feedback 8)

    Regards
    vali
     
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  6. PCBackup

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    Hi vali,

    Still confusing.. bu we wil get there :lol: I just started this weekend to use Spype

    So why is the skype program needed is correlation to 3CX and the gateway?
    My situation is now SNOM360 via 3cx through a voip-provider to the outside world

    I would like Skype users to call our company (Skypename: PCBackup.nl)
    So what does the Skype-Gateway do? Why is the Skype-program needed?

    Why would i want Skype and the Skype-gateway running on another machine than the 3CXprogram?
    Why are the sound drivers needed?
    I use 3cx no withou any sounddrives so if i run Skype now on my own desktop Vista business do still need sounddrivers...

    Anyway as you can see it is all not clear to me.
    A bit more in depth help would be apriciated.

    Eric
     
  7. sipero123

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    Hi,

    Yes I think in theory you can install the 3CX skype gateway on a different machine than yoiur 3CX pbx but you do need to have skype installed on the same machine as gateway.

    From my testing on the previous version of the gateway which does not really resemble the current one it will work but not particularly well. I even managed to achieve this when the 3CX PBX and the 3CX were on a different subnet and at different physical locations but call quality did suffer and it was more prone to failure.

    The reason for needing skype program and the gateway is skype does not directly support sip but uses it own closed system. The gateway is the link which glues 3CX pbx, and skype together.

    The issue about sound drivers relates not to 3CX or the 3CX skype gateway but to the skype program itself. The only possible work round that I found I've already detailed here on the forums.

    The reason you might want 3CX on one machine and the 3CX gateway and skype on another machine is because of the sound driver issue. If you are running your 3CX PBX as a HyperV VM then unless someone else has found a reliable solution you are not going to be able to install an audio driver on this machine so you cannot run 3CX skype gateway and skype on this machine.

    I would love someone to come up with a solution, I've been trying to since April when the original 3CX skype gateway was released.



    Jonathan Hamon
     
  8. Vali_3CX

    Vali_3CX Well-Known Member
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Hi again

    As Jonathan well said, the gateway is like a glue. You have two environments - the SIP environment, and the Skype environment. Therefore, you may see the gateway having two sides - one SIP, one Skype. The SIP side you may consider as a SIPphone, while the Skype side is a Skype client. The gateway "knows" how to control the two sides, using their own languages, in order to pass calls from one environment to another.

    If you're interested only in phone calls, then you don't necessarily need the Skype gateway. You will need it when you are interested by Skype world - I mean, Skype accounts.And that's why, in this case, you need the Skype client: it knows how to talk to other Skypes. Even for phone calls, Skype has a very big advantage over many VOIP providers: it's far more known by common people and widespreaded; much easier to install and to use (ok, that's my personal opinion)

    Audio drivers are required by Skype because its main purpose is to allow direct conversation, by microphone and speakers, not to be a side of a SIP-to-Skype gateway. 3CX Voip Phone, Xlite, also doesn't work without audio drivers. 3CX Gateway works because it's main purpose is to be - from audio point of view - a simple converter, nothing more. An MP3 converter doesn't need audio drivers, just an input file and wit will generate an output one.

    I hope I explained well :mrgreen:

    Best regards
    vali
     
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  9. Vali_3CX

    Vali_3CX Well-Known Member
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Hi, Jonathan

    I cannot understand this "in theory you can install" 8) From SIP point of view, this gateway is a SIP device. More than this, 3CX specific, it's a 3CX Voip Phone brother. Usually you don't run a phone on the same machine as PBX, why should gateway be different? Also, much more important, let's say from overall resources (memory and CPU mainly) Skype client is a very heavy consumer, so definitely you won't like a PBX machine overloaded by Skype and/or a Skype gateway machine overloaded by a PBX on full throttle. Don't imagine that me, when I tested gateway functionalities, I installed every time a PBX - no, I had one PBX with its PSTN gateways configured, while the gateway was running on different OSs and machines. That's why I said, as a developer I would recomend such kind of separate configuration - my personal advice, gateway installed on a simple 32-bit XP machine, nothing fancy.

    Best regards

    vali
     
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  10. sipero123

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    Hi Vali,

    So you are saying your preferred option is to install 3CX PBX on one machine and then install 3CX skype gateway and skype on another machine perhaps running Windows XP Pro

    Do these need to be on the same subnet to work reliably? Certainly this is what I was told with the older version 1 but haven't tried it with the new version.




    Jonathan Hamon
     
  11. PCBackup

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    Hello,

    You are all talking wether or not things should be installed on one machine or not...
    but i want to get to know the basics here.

    Why do i need a skype-client on the PBX? I do'nt use the Skype-client? I use my SNOM-360.
    Or do i have to use a Skype-client on my Vista-desktop to call to Skype users and/or PTSN users?
    But than i would not need the gateway. On the sound-driver issue... the PXB does not need to make any sounds as far i i see it i never work on the server.

    So... i hope someone can explain the basics here. in 'dummy's style' :shock:

    Eric
     
  12. sipero123

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    Eric,

    I'll try to make it simple. If you want to make and receive calls using skype and have them use your 3CX pbx then you have to install the 3CXskype gateway and skype on the same machine.

    This machine also needs to have a sound device as well. This is because this is mandatory for the skype program to work.

    Perhaps this will make things clearer I'll deal with a brief description of a call made to your skype id.

    The inbound call is detected by the skype application, the details are then passed to the 3CX skype gateway which then translate this call into a format compatible with your 3CX pbx and passes information to the pbx.

    The 3CX pbx then reads this information and decides what to do with this call based upon the trunk that it received the call on, and the inbound rules for the inbound call, and if applicable other rules that might be setup for the relevant queue, ring group, extension, or digital receptionist.

    To keep things simple lets assume you just have this routed to an extension without any additional rules the phone will ring and if you answer you'll be able to speak to the other party. If this user is on skype then there is two way traffic between your 3CX pbx to and from the gateway and to and from the skype program all the time. Clearly data flow will be higher when engaged in a call than when there is no call.

    Lets now deal with an outbound call that needs to be routed over skype from your 3CX pbx

    Firstly we need some rules so when you dial from your phone either a number or perhaps using a skype id via a speed dial it knows to route this over the skype trunk.

    On my own setup I prefix the skypeid with 8 so the pbx knows to use this route and what to dial. So I might setup a speed dial no. 1 8platinumsupport

    The pbx will send this to the gateway and the gateway to the skype program and then over skype to this user. When you dial a number providing this has been routed over skype then this will work in the same manner but will leave the skype network and sent to the phone number dialed.

    When answered then the flow of information is as already described on the inbound call but in reverse. If any of the elements i.e. 3CX pbx, 3cx skype gateway, or skype program either don't work or are removed then the call will fail.

    If you don't want to use the 3CX pbx to make and receive calls then yes you can simply use skype on Vista desktop PC

    Many users I have found do prefer to receive all their calls on a single device and also make them from a single device.

    By using appropriate outbound rules you can get the least cost routing. Here is a quick example for you

    I'm on a subscription plan for the UK for 01 and 02 numbers so I have the following rules

    All 01 and 02 calls are made via skype trunk for my allocated 10,000 monthly minutes
    All 07 numbers (UK mobile numbers) are made over VOIP provider A (this provider is around half the cost of skype)
    All 08 numbers (non-geographic UK numbers) are made over VOIP provider B (this provider is cheaper than A or skype for these calls)
    All international calls are made over VOIP provider C (this provider gives me 300 minutes of calls per week to around 30 countries)

    If I dial 01 and rest of number call uses skype trunk
    If I dial 07 and rest of number VOIP provider A
    if I dial 08 and rest of number Voip provider B
    if I dial 00 and rest of number Voip provider C

    If the rules are configured this all happens automatically. You can also set a 2nd or 3rd choice as well in case one of the outbound trunks is engaged or not working.



    Jonathan Hamon
     
  13. Vali_3CX

    Vali_3CX Well-Known Member
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Ok, I will try a different approach 8)

    You are in Netherland and you have the PBX. Me, I'm in Cyprus. Suppose my machine has public IP 217.15.23.44.
    - Eric, please create a PSTN gateway entry on your PBX with IP 217.15.23.44 and port 51234.

    Ok, you create the PSTN gateway and, surprise, it appears as registered, "green" on Ports/Trunks Status on PBX Management Console.
    - Now, Eric, please create an outbound rule for the PSTN gateway, starting with prefix "sk" and stripping 2 digits.

    Ok, you create the outbound rule.
    - Ok. Eric, do you have a Voip Phone to your PBX?
    - Yes, I have a hardphone SNOM registered as 101.
    - Good. Try to dial skecho123.

    Break. Did I mentioned somewhere, until now, the Skype or 3CX Gateway for Skype? No. Did you have to install Skype on your PBX machine? No. Did I asked you to install any audio device? No. Ok, let's continue.
    - Mmm, what's "Hello! Welcome to Skype call testing service!" ?
    - It's my machine. Somehow, I managed to bind your calls to Skype.

    Break. Did I mentioned somewhere the Skype account I'm using? No. From your point of view, has no relevance, important is you have access to Skype "world"
    - Cool. I have a friend using Skype, its account is "EricsFriendSkype" - can I call him from my SNOM?
    - Sure, dial skEricsFriendSkype.
    ....
    - It's busy. And my VoipProvider is down. But, he has it's mobile phone, 00432556622345
    - Try to call him, dial sk00432556622345.

    End. In conclusion, my machine played as "3CX Gateway for Skype machine", while yours "PBX machine". You don't had to install any Skype, you don't had to install any "3CX gateway for Skype", you don't had to install any audio device. All you had to do - as a PBX admin - was to create a PSTN gateway entry into your PBX configuration.

    It was a good explanation? 8)

    Cheers
    vali
     
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  14. sipero123

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    Hi Vali,

    What you described here I presume used your 3CX pbx and 3cx skype gateway and allow Eric to conect to this machine. Have I understood that correctly or have I missed something out.



    Jonathan Hamon
     
  15. PCBackup

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    Hi Vali and Jonathan,

    Thanks... it is all clear to me now.

    And because of the lack of sounddrivers in Hyper-V (it is still in R2 RC) the connection between both worlds is not possible until MS comes with these needed drivers, is it not? And i am not the only one waiting :)

    I will setup Skype to transfer incoming calls to our default # with the option of transfering a call.

    Eric
     
  16. StefanW

    StefanW Head of Customer Support and Training
    Staff Member 3CX Support

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    Hello,

    I guess you can wait long for a recording driver in Hyper V.
    VMware not have build it in there ESX eighter.
    That you can Play Audio is just because the RDC brings a transport driver to playback audio with.
    If this would not be given nothing would work...

    I guess that VMware Server (unsure) but def. VMware Workstation has audio for playback and recording.
    rgds

    Stefan
     
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  17. precedent

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    Hi everyone,

    We are early adapters of Microsoft Hyper-V and have found it to be an excellent tool. I've been looking through all of these posts and there was one strategy that I didn't see mentioned here. All of the posts have concentrated on 3CX running on a Hyper-V machnine. If you have a muli-machine deployment on one box, you can always just add 3cx to the physical partition and add your other applications to the virtual machine(s). That way, if you wanted to add analog gateways and other items to the PBX, the physical partition would handle these items more smoothly. If your environment has a domain controller you can add that machine as a Hyper-V machine. Have an Exchange Server? You can make it an Hyper-V machine, as well. Do these deployments work in practice? Yes. We have a 5U server running 3 virtual machines: a domain controller, exchange, and blackberry professional server. Many people think they have to have the domain controller ("DC") running on the physical partition. That is not the case. If you are going to have have 3CX running on a base partition in a virtualized environment, I recommend using a high desktop motherboard or server-grade workstation motherboard. This way you'll have server performance with desktop features at the same time.

    3CX and the Skype gateway run very well on Windows Server 2008. We have it working in our office. Although we haven't virtualized 3CX, our 3CX server and Skype gateway are running on Windows Server 2008 64Bit. So, we could easily virtualize if we wanted. However, our box will be dedicated to 3CX.

    I'd also like to add that a server running this configuration needs a good chunk of memory. Our box has 4GB installed and the only thing this server does is 3CX and the Skype gateway. The server consistently utilizes around 2GB of RAM in an idle state.When calls start happening, the RAM utilization was over 3GB. We have a very small office and this utilization is with 2 concurrent calls. So, if you're thinking about a office with more than 2 concurrent calls, you may want to think about at least 4 to 6GB RAM for 3CX/Skype Gateway as a starting point. This is to be on the safe side so your box doesn't crash or hang when people are trying to make calls. So if you're trying to virtualize, make sure the motherboard can accept a hefty amount of RAM or you will be disappointed. In a virtualized environment with one physical partition and one VM, you probably need to start the box off with 8GB minimum starting point. So, run of the mill desktop boards need not apply.

    Good luck,

    Patrick
     
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