Confused about "for Windows"

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by Videoblitz, Nov 7, 2007.

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  1. Videoblitz

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    I am a little confused about 3CX PBX is named "Windows based," but doesn't use default Windows software like IIS.

    Apache is a fine webserver, but the Windows versions have a lot more bugs and less modules are available than the coresponding Linux versions and ... Apache is not a default Windows software.

    So 'normally' on a Windows based production system IIS (or/and Apache), PHP, MySQL, PostgrSQL, Perl, Python a.s.o. are running, before installing the 3CX PBX.

    I don't understand why it is necessary to install a second/third/... webserver (conflicts are programmed) and other packages like PHP and PostgreSQL one time more to get in conflict with installed packages, (system search-) paths and used ports.

    I suggest to make an installer, which
    a) installs only packages, if they are not formerly installed and if install, then using not outdated packages (additional download/install from official publisher?), standard pathnames (not below 3CX folder), default ports and default service-names to avoid confusing the administrators
    b) contain add-ons (extensions) for PHP in several API versions (e.g. phpSHIELD.dll and php_cmstatus.dll), which are not included in the official PHP download packages

    I also suggest to give the option to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL, because the penetration of MySQL is much more times greater than PostgreSQL :)


    BTW: I'm still looking for a PHP 5.2 API version of php_cmstatus.dll to get my 3CX PBX on production system running for evaluation ;)
     
  2. kustura

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    Second that, but instead of MySQL why not use MSSQL 2005 Workgroup edition. If you are targeting people who are more comfortable in a Windows environment and are frigthened by the possibility of configuring Asterisk on Linux, why not use components that are more stable on a Windows platform?
     
  3. Videoblitz

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    Licence fees? ;)
     
  4. kustura

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    IIS - free
    MSSQL 2005 Workgroup Ed. - free
    Windows XP - too expensive :)
     
  5. archie

    archie Well-Known Member
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    Than, afraid to ask, how did it happen that you have apache versions conflict if you prefer to use Microsoft products?
     
  6. Videoblitz

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    The answere is easy: because 3CX installs a second apache ;)

    Btw, I would it be find nice, if You can put a short statement to my suggestions or answere my question ...
     
  7. Mirzab

    Mirzab Member

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    Oh Man! Everyone is a GRUMP lately! Get a beer and put the feet up - works for me :lol:
     
  8. RobLloyd

    RobLloyd Member

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    Just had a beer in the hot tub with the feet up! Not much better than that!

     
  9. Videoblitz

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    Beer is a good idea! I have to order a second tray ;)

    But, back to topic, can anyone tell me, why the PBX do not use the default standard enviroment and why some things must be installed one more time again and confuse running systems or itself?
     
  10. archie

    archie Well-Known Member
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    Second installation of apache is a bug of installer, definitely.
    Re choice of packages - personally, I don't know why and I can care less untill it works.
     
  11. kustura

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    That is correct, this is not a big deal if it works, but if ever there is a problem with Apache or Postgre, like the second installation issue, how do we fix it? I don't know how to troubleshoot those programs and we are primarily and IT shop, and then an VoIP shop, so we know how to fix computer problems. We are Windows only shop so we are familiar with MS applications and know how to troubleshoot them. Reinstall the OS and the programs and restore 3CX from a backup would be our solution of choice if Apache or Postgre fails.

    Again, I don't think this is a big deal, it would just make sense if you are positioning the product as a "Software based PBX for Windows", or in other words, "PBX that doesn't require you to mess with Linux." You are obviously targeting people who are comfortable with Windows, not Linux, then it would make sense to use technologies that are more stable on Windows and Windows users would know how to troubleshoot.
     
  12. archie

    archie Well-Known Member
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    One question- what do you mean "second installation"? You want two PBXes running at one box?
     
  13. kustura

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    I didn't have that problem, another user posted it and you acknowledged the issue in your previous post. Apparently if you already have Apache installed on the computer, 3CX installs another copy which causes problems.
     
  14. Videoblitz

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    Re:

    No, I want only to run ONE PBX, but

    IIS serves a lot of Domains on Port 80
    Apache serves SVN on Port 81

    and 3CXs installs a second Apache. Is this fixed in the newest 3CX-Version, so I can try using 3CX again?
     
  15. Thona

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    I want to second that, too_On top, for an enterprise product, 3cx is remarkably ignorant towards the tools of the operating system (for managing software):

    I would like to see:
    * The elimination of Apache and PHP - both are badly maintained in normal setups (i.e. only through the 3cx install). Replace them with IIS and ASP.NET and suddenly you get critical updates by Windows Update. And update the installer - most installs will be "3cx only" on the server, and I would like that to at least be asked whether the website CAN run on port 80. And while we are at it: why is there NO support for HTTPS in the setup and admin pages ;)
    * The elimination of Postgres, please in favour of a local MS SQL Install, either an expres edition, or a (possibly remote) full version. This again is a security issue (Postgres only updated with 3cx), but it goes a lot further with things like backups that are not really working at the moment. And no - the backup tool is not enterprise ready, sorry. I want backups in regular schedules through the tools I use (Data Protection Manager), no through something i have to manage.
    * Event logs. Please forward necessary information to event logs, as this is where admins look. And provide a MOM pack, for operations manager, and some performnce counters to check the system.
    * Maybe a WMI based API? With some nice .NET object models ON TOP? DOCUMENTED, so that we can actually go in and do our own scripts. Look at Microsoft Hyper-V for an example how you can expose a system by WMI.
    * While you are at it, change the web program to use the said API - so we can replace it ;) I don't want that, but sometimes it is good to have easy pages for special functions.
    * Integrated Windows Security. I understand having passwords for devices etc., but I should not have to keep track of yet another admin password. Create a group on the install computer and check for it's membership. And put computer admins in it automatically.
    * Integration with the OS security, PLEASE? I just checked our Server 2008 install, and no, naturally 3cx did NOT set up firewall groups and rules. So, I now do their job, hunting for which ports are used so that the windows standard firewall can actually get them as exceptions ;) The setup should do that, so that the admin has to "just turn things on". Well, acces should be allowed automatically for the internal network ;)
    * Could we please get cluster support ;) Some larger customers may love that ;) Thanks. It is not like that is not an OS function ;)

    On the nice to have section...
    * What about siome Vista Sidebar geadgets? Last calls, and status of specific endpoints ;) Some people may like it. Heck, the whole client could integrate with the sidebar - giving it a nice "secondary" location to stay around when minimized.
     
  16. coelhopsi

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    I completely agree with the previous opinions. It´s not a good time for a U turn now, but maybe in the future, when the 3CX team has some spare time (hehehe!). If one prefers to adopt a Windows based PBX, they would probably prefer to adopt Windows based supporting applications, like IIS and MSSQL.
     
  17. archie

    archie Well-Known Member
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    Thank you all for reach input. Special thanks to Thona - we appreciate it. Many of your requests are alreay in development, some we still have to discuss. We're not ready to change DBMS though (because it will be too much changes for one step and it will be extermaly difficult to test), but we like the idea to have possibility to connect to DBMS of user's choice.

    Btw, what is MOM package?
     
  18. coelhopsi

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  19. bluefox8080

    bluefox8080 New Member

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    As long as one will be able to install 3CX as a complete product an Windows XP Home or Vista Home you can do what you want with the Database, Webserver and other components.
     
  20. Thona

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    Actually MOM is outdated ;) The new Appreviation is SCOM - System Center Operations Manager.

    This is basically a monitoring package for admins. With a "mom package" and proper events mom would know what the events mean and how critical they are and could then alert administrators, from one central console.

    "extension not registered", fo rexample, is hardly critical, at least as long as you use soft phones - people just may not be logged on.

    "voip provider not registered" points to something more critical, because obviously this means you can not phone and are not reachable.

    Larger installations may use a central monitoring package, and SCOM is basically one of the cheaper (workgroup edition for up to 50 servers) and definitly powerfull ones.

    For an "enterprise solution" I would expect supporting something like that. Your in application log is great - seriously. But it requires too much attention for "watching". With MOM, admins get alerted ;) And MOM integrates into a lot of things - at least all MS software including the OS (memorz, cpu utilization can be marked as critical). so it is a "one desktop to check them all" solution.

    http://www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/operationsmanager/en/us/default.aspx is the current link.
     
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