Language problems - time and numbers

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by palsbo, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. palsbo

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    I have translated all the phrases and numbers in the system prompt list, but two problems remains:

    1) Som languages uses 2-hour clock rather than AM/PM
    2) Some languags switches oneth and tenth for some numbers. Example:
    Twenty one is (translated) one-and-twenty. This is the same for all numbers from 21 to 99.

    Any sugestions?
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Just one, stick with 24-hour clock or AM/PM, not sure if the 2-hour clock will take off :).

    Mate, I am not really sure what you are asking, or even understand what you are trying to do. Could you provide a little bit more info? Are you trying to tanslate the numbers (I assume on the IVR for voice message).

    Thanks
    Henk.
     
  3. palsbo

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    Well - we do have shor days here in the cold north, but a 24-hour clock would be just fine :D - Did I miss somthing? is it possible to configure the read-out of hours to 24-hour??? -

    As to the other part.

    In English (and most languages) numbers like 21 is said as "twenty" + "one" - in that sequence.
    In Danish (and a few other languages I know of) 21 is said as "one"+"and"+"twenty" (in Danish: "en-og-tyve").

    Don't tell me it's stupid - I know, but it's been like that for a few thousand years, and it is uphill to try to change that! :oops:

    This goes for all non-dividable-by-ten numbes from 21 to 99.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Do not know really, never thought about it. What would make it go to 24hrs would that be the system clock? Might give it a try.


    Yeah I know we do the same thing in Friesland (That is in the Netherlands). Seem to work ok in real live, but might cause troubles. Something for the support guys to look at, perhaps if you bind "1" + "2" in the voice file it will work.

    Henk
     
  5. vanDivX

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    in Czech Republic they also say those numbers in reverse (precisely as you describe it) but its considered a slang and exists in spoken language only (that is unless you write slang and write it out in words, not numbers), also the am/pm is sort of foreign (really latin) and people are used to 24h style but if something is not made locally, even the am/pm style is ok, seems to me like you are trying to catter to some local nationalistic frictions or pride so common in that part of EU

    vanDivX
     
  6. palsbo

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    It is not a slang - it is the official language. As you may be aware - there are a few other languages in the world but english, and just because we are born to speak another language, we are not nationalistic!
     
  7. vanDivX

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    the bottom line is, people understand when you say it as twenty one, it doesn't have to be 'one and twenty' for them to understand

    in most countries they are not so demanding to have new technology and especially internet technology to conform to local standards, even French have adopted many English terms and their usage when it comes to internet, computers, don't try to make your life more difficult than it has to be (I mean trying to provide perfect translation)

    also, saying numbers backwards way is a slang (ie., regional usage) albeit instituionalized as nation wide official language for ages, some countries simply have institutionalized (elevated) regional dialects as their official language, like Swiss Germans or Canadian French or Slovaks (former Czechoslovaks), anyway I don't mean it to come accross as derogatory term (slang) which it is not

    Czechs also say 'three quarters to five' instead of the normal 'quarter past four' English usage as well as ordering dates their own way :) both of these are part of the offical language but the numbers told backwards are not, I guess it depends, ultimately all languages developped from slang and what it today's slang might make way to the offical languages

    vanDivX
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I have not disagreed with you before but there is a first for everything I guess.

    Twenty-one and One-Twenty as the number 21 is common across EU and other countries, hence I can understand why that is. This is also the reason why a lot of IVR
     
  9. palsbo

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    Arogance do not change the world - or languages!
    There was a time when IBM thought that 7 bit was enough for an alphabet but not all languages is that simple.
    The world has developed, but the day where all speak english will not be in our time. I accept that within an industry certain words and phrases are adapted form other languages, and I would have no proble using "zero two dot one five pm" as a time indication, but when things are put in use for ordinary people, we have to respect their way of thinking - simply to stay in that market. A telephone system is used by ordinary people.

    Thanks Henk
     
  10. vanDivX

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    if its just this sort of disagreement than I can congratulate myself on being right so many time, especially given that personally I ended up with disaster instead of a working phone system LOL

    but look, although I often speak numbers 'backwards' when I speak Czech, I would find it extremely odd and offputting if a machine voice tried to imitate that and I am sure just about any other countryman would find that so, especially when there are irregularities in how some of those numbers are spoken which no templates can match (perhaps other languages have it more simple, Czech is notriously very hard for any foreigner to learn and understand, we have 7 declinations for most words incl numbers, sort of like Latin but much worse), not in Czech market anyway, I mean if IVR told me 'four and twenty', I'd say huh? and it that was banking line, I'd likely terminate the call thinking it was some fraud site :)

    I can only speak for that one country though, I realize that, it is news to me that even such templates exist

    BTW I have an ultimate clock (made to how people used clocks for centuries) in my Firefox called Fuzzy Clock, it tells time only approximately and at its most fuzziest setting it says just 'early morning' 'morning' 'late morning', less fuzzy setting says one o'clock when its about 15 mins before and after one and personally I just use the next less fuzzy setting still when it says 'five past one' from 13:02 - 13:07 or so, you get the idea :)

    vanDivX
     
  11. Nick Galea

    Nick Galea Site Admin

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    Hi Palsbo,

    Thanks for the feedback. Actually its something we did not consider until now. Is this mainly a problem when pronouncing the number of mesages? i will definitely discuss it but i have a feeling it will require a bit of work. In any case something we will consider but for future versions
     
  12. palsbo

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    Hi Galea
    For this language, problems start with 21 and as such also for readout of time after 9:59pm with 24hour clock. Otherwise it is for number of messages only. I gues that other languages might be even more complicated. Maybe som kind of flexible solution is needed here.
    If you want to be able to adapt to as many languages as posible, it might be an idea to look into more scientiic solutions. Somthing to think about for future releases.
    Erik
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Nick

    I think the problem is the ability to customise the IVR to a degree that it allows for localisation of the language (hmm that sounds funny).

    I have to do some digging through my notes from many years back when I "designed" an IVR system .



    Basically the configuration was instead of calling a message the system would call a message ID depending where it was in the work flow.

    So I could make a template calling different messages, the advantage of this was that I could re-use segments of the messages.

    Each language had its own directory eg %ivr%/english and %ivr%/dutch

    For example:

    In england

    msg 1 = "Welcome to my virtual world"
    msg 2 = "twenthy"
    msg 3 = "four"
    msg 4 = "past"
    msg 5 = "your age is"
    msg 6 = "the time is"

    In the netherlands:
    msg 1 = "Welcome in mijn virtual world"
    msg 2 = "twintig"
    msg 3 = "vier"
    msg 4 = "over"
    msg 5 = "Je leeftijd is"
    msg 6 = "De tijd is"
    msg 7 = "en"


    So caller calls and it would go like this for english:
    msg 1
    msg 6 & [msg 2 & msg 3] & msg 4 & msg 3
    msg 5 & msg 2

    and like this for dutch:
    msg 1
    msg 6 & [msg 3 & msg 7 & msg 2] & msg 4 & msg 3
    msg 5 & msg 2

    So if 3cx is able to call a template instead of a msg that will work, but that might required a few changes here and there like you mentioned.

    Hope this helps
    Henk.
     

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