Linking Analogue Phones to 3CX v9.1

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by atomicwaste12, Feb 15, 2011.

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  1. atomicwaste12

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    Hi

    You may reccall I asked for help getting a spa400 to connect to our 3CX PBX. However, that failed. I have returned the item and I am looking at buying another 'gadget' that is both compatible and supported by 3CX.

    Before I do that, I need your advice. We cannot afford Pattons, we are a very small start up that is looking to make cheap calls and have almost zero costs on PBX etc. 3CX fits that bill perfectly.

    We also do not have the luxury of buying IP phones because we have already purchased BT V8's. So what I want to do is this. We have 4 phones, 1 fax, 1 line, 1 broadband. We will be moving to BT's VOIP offer which we can input into 3CX. What we want to do is connect the 4 analogue phones to 3CX using a gateway.

    The actual phone line is used for FAX and for broadband. No line connects with 3CX and hence we do not expect our gateway to be connected to the phone line. It will be connected to the network using a linksys switch. Our broadband will also be with BT.

    Please explain the FXS, FXO confusion and which one do I need to do the above. I am sure you have gathered that we need the cheapest but best solution. A grandstream for example, but which one?

    Apologies for the long post. and thanks in advance (TIA) for your help.
     
  2. davidbenwell

    davidbenwell Active Member

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    if you wish to make use of normal BT PSTN line type phones then you need to purchase a ATA device for each phone which converts the normal analogue phone to a Digital IP data packet.

    you can get theses for around £15 each and this ata will connect to 3CX.

    if you are wanting this cheap then look on ebay for a IP ATA device and you will see them
     
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  3. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    FXS= Foreign Exchange Station, This is the port a telephone set plugs into. (Acts as a line equipment, has ~48vdc on it, puts out ringing voltage)
    FXO=Foreign Exchange Office, This is the port that plugs into a phone line coming from the telephone company. (Acts as a phone, it wants ~48vdc /ringing voltage going into it)

    The terms are from the old carrier days when telephone companies had to set up foreign exchange service for a customer. They wanted dialtone from a remote office.

    Switching Line equipment -->FXO card-----T1/E1 (or older) carrier--->FXS card---->remote telephone set

    If you are using a single telephone line and want to bring that into 3CX, it can also be bridged to your fax machine, there are a number of devices (the Linksys SPA3102 is one) that combine an FXO and FXS port. that would give you one analogue phone and a 3CX trunk to the PSTN phone line. Devices such as the Linksys SPA 2102 or PAP2 (along with a number of other manufacturer offerings) will give you the ability to "run" two analogue sets per device. FXS devices are generally available in one. two , four port, and larger. FXO devices are generally available in one (in addition to an FXS port) , four port, eight port, and larger.
     
  4. atomicwaste12

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    Thanks for your reply,

    However, just to be clear, I have 1 BT line. I use the line for FAX and Broadband. I use the broadband for internet and Voip using 3CX as the internal PBX and sipgate as the external voip provider (soon to be moving to BT.

    At the moment we use 3CX softphones but we have these analogue phones and we want to use them connected to 3CX via some kind of gateway.

    However, you state that an ATA device will suffice but can't we use a gateway? like for example the Grandstream GXW-4104 / GXW-4108 do these not convert analogue phones to be used with 3CX. I am sorry for these repeated questions, I am not an IT person and hence these things are a steep learning curve.

    What would you recommend? many thanks
     
  5. atomicwaste12

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    I have included a diagram in case I am confusing you (or more honestly confusing myself). The diagram shows our current setp (oustide the red circle) and our proposed setup (inside the red circle). It is that 'magic' box that we require to link our phones to 3CX and hence to VOIP. As you can see the BT Line (is it called PSTN) is connected straight to the FAX and Router via the filter. There is no connection to 3CX. 3CX connects to sipgate via broadband and broadband alone (BTW is this OK or should it be something else, a diagram would be nice). So somebody please tell me what gateway/ata gadget to buy. TIA.
     

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  6. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    You appear to be after an ATA.

    Depending on how your current system is wired and where the handsets are (and are they cordless or not) would depend on the type of ATA you need.

    If each phone is at a remote desk currently then you possibly need an ATA for each.

    If the phones all go to a central place and use wiring in the building then you can get away with a single multi port ATA.

    I dont know much about pricing in the UK but over here an ATA is on par with a good IP phone. So I appreciate you have bought the BT phones but you may want to consider selling them and getting new IP Phones. The IP phones give you a lot more of the 3cx features that an ATA cannot do (and the features are free in 3cx). Features such as attended transfer, multiple calls to the same extension, paging and BLF's.

    A single line Yealink or Granstream phones are about the same price as an ATA.

    It also sounds like you bought the wrong product before. The CISCO 8000 not 4000 is the better ATA with 8 FXS ports (As Leejor said, FXS connects to handsets). The 8000 is about $10 more than the 4000 so see if you can return it for the other model.
     
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  7. atomicwaste12

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    Mark

    Thank you for your reply. It has cleared a lot of things.

    3 of our phones are all in a central area and hence will have no problem connecting to a single 4 port FXS (is that right?) gateway also known as an ATA (is that right?) and I intend to buy a long cable and connect that up too.

    You are right that in the past I have bought the wrong equipment it was in fact an SPA400 which did not connect to 3CX so I have returned it (and hopefully will get my money back). However, the other users are not happy with softphones and want to use their old V8 phones that they familar with and so forth, however I am disaapointed to hear that you cannot do transfers using an ATA (is that right? we could with the softphones) and is a major requirement, because I am also the company's receptionist at the moment.

    Please advise so this time we get the right equipment if that means getting IP phones than so be it. and which phones would you recommend? Thanks once again.
     
  8. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    Some small bits of confusion. Some are because the industry does not use the correct terms and others are confusing.

    You want an ATA (Analog to Telephone Adapter). Not a Gateway (which is a PSTN adapter). But lots of them overlap or have dual purposes (the SPA3102 has 1FXS and 1FXO port).

    So if you are looking at tech specs you want FXS ports.

    the SPA4000 was an FXO port PSTN adapter. It is about $10 cheaper than the SPA8000 8 FXS adapter (which most definately works with 3cx for your needs). So you can ask if they will swap.

    I think I confused you also as you CAN do transfers with the ATA but they are blind transfers. This means you transfer them and lose them. An Attended Transfer is you put them on hold, call the other extension, if they want to take the call then you can transfer them or you can get the call back and talk to the orginal caller.

    Now you can sort of achieve this with ATAs and single line phones as you can put the call into parking orbit and have the new extension pick it up, but it is not as elegant.

    A 2 or 4 line IP phone gives you more choices and features. A 1 line Grandstream phone is about $40. But the 2 line Grandstream 1200 (nicer) is about $50 and worth the extra. The 4 line Grandstream 2000 is about $65. Yealinks are about $5 - $10 more. Then the Linksys another $10 -$20 more.

    I am not aware of a 4 port FXS but there may be one around. We normally get the 8000 as it allows for extras later.

    If you can get all 4 phones to connect at a central point (Doesnt matter where) and then run normal phone cable or cat 5 to the final point then this will work well.

    One thing to remember with multi port ATAs. They only have 1 ip address and so have to register each port on a different ip port to 3cx. eg. fxs1 on 5060, fxs2 on 5061, fxs3 on 5062 etc. I see a lot of people make that mistake.
     
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  9. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    Huh? As far as I know, most, if not all ATA's allow call transfer by means of a hook flash.

    ATA= Analogue Telephone Adapter = FXS ports

    If you don't intend on connecting 3CX to your local phone line, from BT (for dialtone), then you don't need a Gateway (FXO).
     
  10. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    There was confusion

    I said Attended Transfer on the phone, but he read transfer which is different.
     
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  11. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall having to use a *98 for a blind transfer on Linksys ATA's but that attended transfers happen with just a flash. I can't speak with certainty about other make ATA's. I've use a lot of the 2102's, only played a bit with the cheaper PAP2T.
     
  12. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    I have some spare PAP2Ts and 2102's here so I will try them and report back
     
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  13. atomicwaste12

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    I am sorry for not replying earlier. Many thanks to everybody and yes the penny has dropped on many issues.

    So either get the SPA8000 or 3/4 Grandstream 1200.

    I can get the SPA8000 for £132 or 4 Granstreams for £168 (£36 more but apparently more functions)

    What would you buy and why?

    To be honest I am inclined towards the new phones because it will be more elegant solution for our needs, but I am one of those that has been bitten once by buying the wrong equipment in the past and hence I want to make (doubly) sure that this time we get the right equipment.

    Also currently on our softphones we do not get a ring tone how can I get a ring tone when we get either the SPA8000 or the 1200s.

    The Grandstream 1200 is a 2 line phone, what does that mean? ie does it mean that it will need 2 Cat5e ethernet cables?

    Many thanks.
     
  14. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    Grandstream in a heartbeat!

    The SPA8000 is fine for existing set ups but is not the best solution - more of a make do when you have invested heavily before or moving from an old PBX which had all the wiring in place.

    The Grandstream gives you all the extra features that comes with SIP/3cx. For example it has a full duplex speaker on it. This means you can dial something like *9<ext> and you will have instant hands free 2 way intercom with that person (great for receptionists to let someone in a back office know that someone is there for them). Or you can set up ring groups with paging strategy (e.g. Warehouse) and then page all the phones in the group on their speakerphone - so of a PA for targeted users.

    The 2 lines means you can have 2 different extensions (say you have a private direct line then you can route it to your second ext and have a different caller id on dialing out). Or you have the same extension 2x. This allows to put someone on hold and take a second (more important) call. Or Attended Transfers etc. Or it can be used as a BLF to see when another extension is free or not.

    It also has dual ethernet ports. Very useful as most users have their computer plugged into the only ethernet port in the wall. This would mean running new cable or buying an unsightly switch as each desk. The 1200 solves this. Plug the 1200 into the network wall socket and the pc into the 1200 - it has its own built in switch.

    Lets say you work from home. You can buy another 1200 and plug it in there and it will work. Or take your work phone home (say you work in the office for 3 days and home for 4, or office 1 for 3 days and office 2 for 4). Cannot do that with the SPA8000.

    So more features, more flexibility.

    If you are not getting a ring tone on your softphones, usually something is up. Make sure you allow UDP ports 7000 - 7499 on your pc firewall and 3cx.

    You register your phones on ports 5060. You have internal audio on ports 7000 - 7499 and you have external audio (from 3cx to voip provider only) on ports 9000 - 9049.

    So your external firewall/router needs to have tcp 5060, tcp 5090 (if using the tunnel), udp 9000 - 9049 and udp 10000 (if using fax server) open.

    3cx firewall needs all those plus udp 7000 - 7499.

    PCs with softphone needs tcp 5060, 5090 if using tunnel and 7000 - 7499.
     
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  15. atomicwaste12

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    Hi Mark

    fantastic reply. So much useful information. In fact I have printed this thread to help with the installing. Thank you for your effort.

    On the strength of your reply I am about to order 4 Grandstream 1200s. :p

    And off course thank you to everybody for educationg a dunce :shock:
     
  16. abc123

    abc123 Active Member

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    Please use the provisioning in 3cx - they have one for the Grandstream. Not only does it make it easy to initially configure but also changes are automatice via 3cx after that.
     
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