Linksys SPA921 SPA922 SPA941 SPA942 SPA962 Echo

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by computing4u, Sep 9, 2008.

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  1. computing4u

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    Linksys SPA921 SPA922 SPA941 SPA942 SPA962 Echo.

    All the linksys phones listed seem to have an echo.

    Has anyone else got or had similar problems?
     
  2. FoxhallVoIP

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    Just on the off-chance - it might be that your transmission gain is too high on thephones ...
    I've cured echo problems on SPA phones by setting the 'Handset input gain' on the 'Phone' page, to zero. Sometimes, the +6 setting is too loud in transmission, and that can cause an echo.
     
  3. computing4u

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    The echo occurs when the volume on handsets is set to full which is of course possible with users..

    When the call is over a voip line for example to a mobile and the delay is long this echo is huge.

    A Snom for example does not have this problem at all when substitued on any of these existing setups?
     
  4. FoxhallVoIP

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    Hi C4U
    Just to clarify ... User's can set the 'received' volume using the + - key on the SPA phone - but they can't set transmission volume. That's an admin setting done via the configuration page of the phone (go right to the bottom of the 'Phone' page - and you'll see Tx level setting for handset, headset & hands-free ... +6, 0 or -6 dB for each). It's the transmission volume that I've seen cause echo ... Some phones work well at +6, while others need to be cut back to 0 - it depends on the individual phone in my experience.

    The 'SNOM can do it' comments seem to indicate that your VoIP connection is not causing the problem, because [surely!] a delay would be a delay, for any type of phone[?].

    I do know that the SNOM phones don't seem to have as many codec negotiation options as Linksys SPA's (I've seen situations where Linksys and Snom won't actually talk to each other 'cause they can't negotiate a codec!) - so it might be worth looking at what codec's are being used in the SNOM V's Linksys for that scenario ...
     
  5. pbnet

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    I have two SPA921 phones.. no echo here..
     
  6. computing4u

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    These handsets look great and all the functions are present.

    But make a call and the quality is not!
     
  7. BJReplay

    BJReplay New Member

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    No Echo for me, either.
     
  8. Resolve

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    Matt,

    On our first 3cx installs we used 941/2 phones. The main problems we found were constant complaints about poor volume. On investigating how we could sort this the first drawback we found was the lack of any granularity in the settings - -6dB 0dB or +6dB

    Increasing the gain to 6dB did seem to solve the problem with our main "complainant" - but we did start to get complaints form others about echo. As we were using the 942's in our office without any problems it seemed a bit difficult to pin down - until I spent a few hours in their office sorting out some other problems and happened to notice how they were using the phones......and it's something I've seen repeated a few times elsewhere: - the position of the handset when talking....

    In an office of say 6 people, a good proportion will adopt a telephone technique where the mouthpiece is actually closer to their neck than their mouths - effectively it's under their chin. Others will talk straight into the mouthpiece.

    What we realized is that those that talk straight into the mouthpiece had absolutely no problem - at the odB gain setting. Those that talk "into air" really needed the gain increased. What we had mistakenly done as it turned out was to increase the gain across the board with some less than ideal results regarding echo.

    When I suggested (genuinely politely and without sarcasm) suggested it would be better to talk directly into the mouthpiece I was taken aback by the hostility of the response - to summarise "we didn't have to do this with the old system". They were right - they didn't :cry:

    the next issue we had at the time (though since sorted) was the difficulty using the *xx sequences, and the clunky way you access bxfer (and I still haven't found a way of programming the softkeys) and we were all left distinctly underwhelmed - hence I had a discussion with a few others much more experienced than I about our problems. The suggestion was that we tried Snom's and I have to say they were a revelation in comparison. We've still got 941's in the office that we use for test/demo and emergency swap in. It's true to say that not everyone complains about them but as it stands we've had zero complaints about Snom 320/360s, added to which the simple fact they just work with 3cx. Full stop - no mucking around with dial plans, provisioning works etc, soft key support - and plenty of setting granularity for volume control !


    Tim
     
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  9. Discovery Technology

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    Good point - regardless of how good 3CX is, if you can't get the handsets working then the overall customer satisfaction is going to be fairly low.

    The Linksys phones do look quite nice, so it may be worthwhile persisting with this one by trying something similar to my comments below...

    PSTN line echo problem on Linksys equipment.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    During testing, the line echo problem occurred whether or not there was a PSTN line plugged into an SPA-3102 - due to most Linksys devices having an amlost identical GUI, these should settings translate to other devices as well.

    I am hoping the information entered in this post will help people that have line echo problems with the Sipura/Linksys units. I have heard reports that these changes have managed to reduce the line echo significantly, down to the point that it is barely noticeable.

    The steps listed here are almost going to be taken literally from the document listed on the Linksys site(see link below), the settings listed here are what has been tried previously. ( these maybe slightly different to the original document in the Linksys knowledge base - see link below.), I certainly hope this information helps people reduce echo problems.

    NOTE: the settings in this document are for use within Australia and some small modifications would be required to suit other countries.

    Step1:
    Ensure you modem is running the latest firmware, and *SHOULD* be be set to the factory defaults, or least undo all the previous tweaking.

    NOTE: I am running the latest firmware, but I have not reset the modem back to factory defaults

    Step2:
    Disable all the echo cancellation functions of your SPA-3102, these settings are located on line1 & the PSTN Tabs, (Do this for each tab)

    Echo Canc Enable = No
    Echo Canc Adaptive=No
    Echo Supp Enable = No

    Step3:
    Remove any devices connected to your phone except the SPA-3102, this avoids any impedance mismatches caused by other devices on your phone line, impedance mismatches can cause echos.

    NOTE: if your using ADSL for network connectivity, do not remove your filters from the line to your handset(or the SPA3102)

    Step4:
    Set the FXO Port impedance on the PSTN tab to 220+820|120nf
    Set the FXO Port impedance on the Line tab to 220+820|120nf

    Step5:
    Look for Network Jitter Level on the PSTN Line tab and set it to low then look for Jitter Buffer Adjustment and set it to disable. This reduces the delay across your SPA-3102.

    NOTE: If you are using a poor quality VOIP service, go to the Line 1 tab and look for Network Jitter Level and set it to low and set the Jitter Buffer Adjustment from up to down. But if you are using a poor quality PSTN, set the Network Jitter Level to medium.

    Step 6:
    Go to the PSTN Line under Audio Configuration look for Preferred Codec and set it to your preferred settings and lock it in by setting the Use Pref Codec Only to yes. Adjust these settings if you’re accessing your PSTN line via VoIP from a remote network then go to Line 1 and set Preferred Codec with the same settings you set with PSTN Line. Under Preferred Codec Only set it no. These settings reduce your latency and may make the echo less obvious or easier to catch with the echo canceller.

    NOTE: I have not as yet locked in a Preferred Codec, from the quality of calls I have made , I've noticed that different codecs are used, I'm beginning to think this might be a good idea from the range of calls I have made to land lines and some mobiles and also voip calls.

    Step 7:
    Power cycle the SPA-3000 by powering down the device. This sometimes fixes the problem especially after changing the physical phone wiring.

    Step 8:
    Make some test calls and observe if you can hear an echo. If yes, the problem could be that you’re sending too much power down the line and gets reflected back somewhere as an echo. Even if you have good wiring but you are too close to the mouthpiece, you will still hear an echo. To resolve this, you need to increase the level of Gain by going to PSTN and look for SPA To PSTN Gain and slowly adjust the level until you can clearly hear the person on the other line.

    NOTE: If you enable Echo Supp Enable, you will negate these parameters. The Sipura echo suppression is just an automatic gain control and it is recommended that it be kept disabled.

    Step 9: (note the port impedance in this step is not used is australia)
    Make a test call to someone with a phone that works via the SPA's PSTN line or call in to the PSTN line. If the remote party is hearing an echo, your phone may be loud and is experiencing feedback into the microphone. Lower the PSTN to SPA Gain until you can be comfortable hearing the person on the other line. If the remote user can still hear an echo, try using a different phone plugged into the SPA. If this solves the problem, your phone may not be working properly or there is an impedance mismatch between your phone and the SPA. Try changing the FXS Port Impedance to 600 on the Regional tab and change the FXO port impedance to 600 or global. If this doesn't help, change it back. The impedance will only affect what the remote party hears and it won't help remove the echo you are hearing.

    Step 10:
    After lowering the echo to a tolerable level, go back into the PSTN tab and enable the Echo Can Enable by selecting Yes. Check if the echo has improved. If the echo is tolerable at this level, leave the adaptive echo canceller off. You should have the echo level down to a level that can be filtered by the echo canceller. If you are using a sip device to talk through your PSTN line, you should probably do all the echo cancellation at that device and leave it switched off in the SPA.

    Link:

    http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linksys.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5167&p_created=1168646951&p_sid=II4Twyyi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=5167&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NyZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9MTcyMSwxNzIzJnBfcHY9MS4yNDMmcF9jdj0yLjE3MjMmcF9zY2ZfbGFuZz0xJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9ZWNobw**&p_li=&p_topview=1

    Cheers, Brendan
     
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  10. FoxhallVoIP

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    Just on the Blind Transfer point .. the SPA9xx phones have a Yes/No setting in the 'Call Feature Settings' section of the 'Ext.1' 'Ext.2' etc. pages - "Blind Attn-Xfer Enable:"
    If you set this to Yes (default is No), then you can do an unattended transfer off that extension by simply pressing the soft XFER key, dialling the target extension, and when you hear it ringing in your ear, press XFER again. You will drop out and leave the caller on 'system' hold. The call will ring on the target extension until answered, diverted or voice-mailed etc. When it's picked up at the target extension, the original caller is then connected to the user at the target extension - or voicemail etc.

    In other words, its just like an attended transfer, but you don't wait for the guy at the target extension to answer before you hit XFER again ...
     
  11. mickp

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    Thanks for the tip FoxhallVoip. I'll give that a try first thing on Monday.
     
  12. mickp

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    Hi Matt,

    The latest firmware 6.1.3a for the 942 suports blf with 3cx in the same manner as the SPA932 side-carriage thinger. I've had it working but don't have any interest in implementing it because all of our users with hansets are running the 3cx client in handset mode anyway. Those who I've asked about it have said that it doesn't appeal.

    The one issue with the blf support at the moment is that (like the SPA932) the call pickup isn't working. I've seen a note ragarding this on a 3cx howto somewhere saying that they're working on fixing the call pickup problem.

    Mick.
     
  13. Spyklee

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    Mick,

    Are you able to provide the configuration settings of the BLF?

    Thank you,

    Erc
     
  14. Spyklee

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  15. ziptalk

    ziptalk New Member

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    I think I'll be buying the SNOMs now! :roll:
     
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  16. Resolve

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    Hi Matt - can you elaborate a bit please (at the risk of hijacking the thread) ?

    Tim
     
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  17. liberty2

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