Question Connecting analog phones

Discussion in '3CX Phone System - General' started by petewatterschats, Jan 19, 2016.

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  1. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    Example
    Time Warner is the ITSP. They install on site (a cable Modem?) which has a connection for an RJ 11 cable. This cable is attached to a punch down block in a central wiring room. The punch down block also connects all the analog phones in the house for this one line.
    To make this work I assume that I would need an FXS adapter but does this need to be connected to the PC hosting the IPPBX software and if so how.
    I guess is if I install a 3CX, IPPBX how do I get my existing analog phones to work
     
  2. lneblett

    lneblett Well-Known Member

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    You need an FXO gateway of which there are a number of supported models. You simply take the analog line from the eMTA (cable modem with telephony capabilities) and plug the RJ11 into the line port. The gateway is then connected to the LAN via Ethernet cable whereupon you program the gateway to communicate with 3CX. The gateways come in various configurations in order to support multiple incoming POTS lines.

    Then to get the signal to the phones, you are correct in that you need an ATA (FXS adapter). Keep in mind that this is a PBX.... so, you need to consider how you want the phones to work. If you want the phones as extensions, then you will need a FXS connection for each. Again, these also come in various configurations to support multiple phones. The wiring will need to be "home run" in this example so that each phone is isolated and can be treated as a separate extension.

    If the wiring in the home is looped or otherwise cross-connected then the ATA may be able to still be used as long as you are willing to have any cross-connected group of phones treated as one extension and as long as the REN value of the ATA is within the total REN value of the associated phones.
     
  3. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    For background information we are Home Automation and Home Entertainment consultants with years of IT experience. We are looking at SIP servers in a Home Environment and the existing analog phones are only a start but are an ecensial basic that is maditory.

    I am new at this (PBX) and I am using my own setup to learn and install a solution for testing purposes. The analog phones and even VOIP phones are just one of many SIP devices that will be in the mix.

    Two Lines are setup
    Each phone location outlet (DROP) is home run to the patch panel and punched down on the panel and each drop has multiple RJ11 outlets labeled V1, V2, V3 etc.

    In the central wiring closet there is a box with two RJ11 connectors which are also wired to the patch panel and connect the phone lines to drop outlets

    I assume that I would need a gateway with 2 FXO ports (Connected to Cable Modem) and 2 FXS ports which would be connected via RJ11 cable to the RJ11 Box in the wiring closet.

    It appears that some gateways have both FXO and FXS ports and in the case of Linksys SPA3102 1 FXO and 1 FXS I would need 2 of these one for each line - am I correct.

    Should I be looking at gateways that have both FXO and FXS ports or should I be looking for one device with FXO and another with FXS

    I notice that the support gateway list is small and Cisco, Linksys, 3COM, Grandstream is there a reason for this

    For purposes of my understanding could you recommend a product that would fit in this situation so I can use it for educational purposes.

    Thanks
     
  4. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    Or somewhere that they can be connected via Ethernet to the PBX server.

    There are some that have four of each which might be more economical depensing on the number of analogue sets that are planned. The SPA-3102 had been discontinued (Linksys does not offer a replacement), but, can still be found, it is, however, no longer (officially) supported by 3CX.

    it would come down to cost, depending on the installation (number of lines/sets).

    For a simple set-up, for demonstration purposes, the SPA-3102 would fit the bill and remain economical (about $100 US on Amazon, but they may sell for less elsewhere). there may be other 1 FXO/1 FXS devices out there but i can't speak for compatibility. If you want to remain with " 3CX supported" devices, then the analogue gateway selection is going to be limited.
     
  5. lneblett

    lneblett Well-Known Member

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    If the eMTA outlets and the drop connections are both collocated, then an adapter that has both FXS and FXO is fine. If however, you discover that the connections and not collocated, then you have a decision to make as both boxes still require an Ethernet connection so it may be merely a question of which cable you prefer to run. I don't recall having seen a 2 port FXO gateway as most seem to be 4 port. However, there may very well be some out there. FXS ATAs come in a number of different port configurations.

    The SPA3102, as Leejor mentioned, is fine and still around. The HT503, ATA-171M & VIP-157 (do a google on each) are other ones with the same functionality. Given their multi-role functionality, they will all need to be manually provisioned. I have used the 3102, HT and VIP. I will warn that given your intended use, you may want to check the environmental specs for operating temperature as I suspect that it might find its way into some warmer installation spots.
     
  6. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    All equipment and lines (wires) are terminated in a central wire closet where temp is controlled

    The punch down block for phone wires goes out to several wall outlets (drops) for the same number. The phone line for the phone number that goes out to each of the DROPS is also punched down in the punch down block and connects the drops to the specific phone line. This currently works fine with a Vonage Line.

    I assume that I only need one FXS port for this phone line and not one for each of the analog phones connected to a drop. Am I correct??

    I am looking at the Patton SN4114 which has 4 analog ports and that 2 can be configured for FXS and 2 for FXO, am I correct??
     
  7. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on how you want the phones to work. All could be connected to the one extension number, but you are sort of defeating the purpose of having a PBX involved, like being able to call from room to room, or being interrupted when someone else picks up a phone. If the customer wanted to add a second trunk, perhaps a VoIP provider, then with one extension, only one person could be placing/receiving a call at a time. Given the relatively low cost (compared to the overall cost of the installation) of an ATA port (in a multi-port adapter), you might want to consider each set with it's own extension number, then placing them all in one ring group, to allow all sets in the home to ring on an incoming call.

    Something else to keep in mind...with one FXS port, you have to consider the REN load (how many ringers are on the one line). It is not that much of a concern with modern electronic sets, but, if, down the road, the customer decided to plug in an older, mechanical ringer phone, it could end up drawing too much current.
     
  8. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    I need to get my feet wet and do some testing to get some hands on experience and make my mistakes and learn from them.

    I am coming to the conclusion that it might make sense just to replace the analog phones with VOIP phones

    For my testing purposes I am looking at either a SPA3102 or HT103 which would me my best option assuming price is the same
     
  9. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    Having used the 3102, and not the HT103, I'm a bit biased. The 3102 was supported by 3CX, in the past, and there used to be a page on optioning the device, that has since been removed. I can't say that I've seen a lot of "chatter" on the 3CX forum regarding the 103. GS themselves (or their forum) may be of some help, but mentioning the full name on this forum will result in it being changed to "unsupported device". If you plan on doing a number of installations, you might consider buying one of each to start, try them both out, see which you prefer to work with, and go from there.
    As far as the VoIP sets goes...In residential, most sets now tend to be cordless, unless it is a desk phone in the den. There are some cordless (DECT), VoIP sets available (I use several Gigaset C610IP base stations myself), but the selection is far and few unless you go for an expensive commercial model. An ATA along with a "regular" cordless tends to be the most economical, especially if the users is "rough" on the handsets, as tends to happen.
     
  10. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    Just musing, what is the down side of using a smart phone with a SIP client rater than an IP phone???
     
  11. Frank D

    Frank D New Member

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    • It's the WLAN. The speed of the WLAN depends a lot on the number and location of the devices logged in. It's not just the device, which you are using, other devices with a bad reception can slow down the whole WLAN significantly, as the speed of all the WLAN is adapted to the device with the worst reception. It's really difficult to get an reliable WLAN.
    • CTI is not supported by the 3cx smarphone client.
    • With 3cx the softphone cannot use the HD-Audio codec (at least is used to be this way).
     
  12. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on how you (the customer) intends to use it. One of the issues is battery life. A DECT handset using an ATA, or DECT connected to a base that is SIP enabled, will have a much better battery life (along with a convenient base to simplify drop the handset into for charging), than will a smart-phone with a SIP client. Not to say that quick changing isn't available, but it depends on the phone. The other consideration is wireless coverage. While there are "smart" Wifi networks that allow a hand-off from one base to another, they are not in-expensive. Some DECT systems allow for the addition of repeaters for larger area coverage for minimal cost.

    It's not a one-size-fits-all, you have to keep in mind the advantages, and dis-advantages, of each, when used in various scenarios. Will the customer always have their smart-phone with them, or is it more convenient to "grab" a ringing cordless nearby. And, there is nothing preventing all types of handsets from being used.
     
  13. petewatterschats

    petewatterschats New Member

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    I have been looking at VOIP wired sets and I saw that the FANVIL C58P specs say that is two line.

    In a VOIP SIP situation where you hand more than one trunk (phone lines) any VOIP phone would be able to use and of the trunks.

    What am I missing

    Thanks for all your help
     
  14. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    Quite a number of VoIP (typically business) sets have multiple keys which can be used for a any number of function, additional extension appearances being on of them.

    A
    I'm not sure.

    In 3CX outbound call routing is normally done using the outbound rules, based on the number dialled, and (if desired) the extension dialling it. Having a set with a second extension appearance simply makes it easier to put the first call on hold and then take, or make a second call. A PBX extension key is not normally associated (although some users do), with a particular trunk as they were with the older key systems.
     
  15. Sopock

    Sopock Member

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    Question Connecting IP DECT phones

    not only that, but I also wonder when most ITSPs will finally allow IP phones?

    Analog ports on Arris modem(NCS, Legacy SIP, and PacketCable 2.0 IMS) should not be only way of using voice service.

    Users of some NL provider also try to avoid this completely unnecessary analog conversion:
    It is a house where eight IP appliances will come. The telephone exchange is the free version of 3CX. This allows two people to call at once. Also you can set this several VoIP providers.

    For example, many ISPs will not allow using FRITZ!Box 6360(DECT) directly on coax network.

    TWCBC:
    3CX Phone System Release 1.0 Configuration Guide
    • calls (...) are not routed over the public internet
    Any such SIP enabled base station with PoE support which would work on TS-8-PRO(48V passive)?
    Other (Multi-Line DECT ATA) options: SPA232D (EOL)
     
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  16. eagle2

    eagle2 Well-Known Member

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  17. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    The UC100 would appear to be a bit of over-kill, unless you also required a GSM gateway. Most of the hits I got on Google, were European listings, is it marketed in North America? Price seems to be about 2 to 4 times that of the 3102, if you shop around.
     
  18. eagle2

    eagle2 Well-Known Member

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    There is a UC100 without GSM module inside, only FXS & FXO. Price in Europe is same to SPA3102, which is already not-available.
     
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  19. leejor

    leejor Well-Known Member

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    Do you know any distributors for North America, I can't seem to find any? Seems to be all European and Chinese sites listing them.
     
  20. eagle2

    eagle2 Well-Known Member

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    No idea for North America distributor, try contacting Dinstar directly at sales@dinstar.com, they could ship with DHL or TNT, all devices work fine with 3CX (manual configuring).
     
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