cell phone carrier false spam filtering

[Colorado VoIP]

has anyone else noticed a virtually overnight clamp down on your sip trunks having weird call issues where it will ring 2 times and drop, or just go to a generic voicemail box with no name on it, or even get a recorded message that says something along the lines of "our network analytics indicate this call may be a robo call, spam, or scam?" this started late last week and has continued into this week.

it seems like all of a sudden every one of our higher use customers has been affected by this. it's coming from the receiving end cellular providers such as t-mobile, at&t, verizon etc. and any MNVOs that piggy backs on their service like google fi, mint mobile, etc etc.

we're going through the process of getting customers that were not already registered, registered with first orion and that free caller registry portal.

was just curious how wide spread this was among the partners?

 

[SteveITS]

Are they all using the same SIP provider?

Not to a cell carrier, but we’ve had occasional issues calling specific numbers since last fall, where the call would drop like that. We're told Level3 is blocking it, so they're apparently in the path. At least one of those uses RingCentral as I recall. They suggested https://freecallerregistry.com/fcr/ but it didn't seem to help much. Of course company we're calling isn't much help as they don't know. Also worth noting, they can call us fine.

 

[Colorado VoIP]

Are they all using the same SIP provider?

Not to a cell carrier, but we’ve had occasional issues calling specific numbers since last fall, where the call would drop like that. We're told Level3 is blocking it, so they're apparently in the path. At least one of those uses RingCentral as I recall. They suggested https://freecallerregistry.com/fcr/ but it didn't seem to help much. Of course company we're calling isn't much help as they don't know. Also worth noting, they can call us fine.

it's affecting numerous trunks. voip.ms, flowroute, bcm one, wiretap... certainly odd. this even started affecting our numbers, going through that free caller registry and finishing up with first orion seems like it actually helped. the highest affected customer has reported a major reduction in call problems, and even our calls have cleaned up as of this morning thankfully.

wish there was a more direct publication on this and how to really fix it. seems one hand doesn't talk to the other when it comes to cell phone providers just deciding to flip a switch and block a ton of calls. on a positive, i haven't got any junk calls in a few weeks lol!!

 

[SteveITS]

Hmm and here I assumed my recent lack of calls from Texas politicians was because it’s not November anymore…
(We’re in Illinois)

 

[tdxvoice]

Very glad I found this thread, I thought I was going crazy! I'm mainly on voip.ms, but am experiencing these exact symptoms, with the addition that sometimes the calls terminate to some modem-type screeching. Is there any data anywhere as to why this has started happening?

 

[Colorado VoIP]

Very glad I found this thread, I thought I was going crazy! I'm mainly on voip.ms, but am experiencing these exact symptoms, with the addition that sometimes the calls terminate to some modem-type screeching. Is there any data anywhere as to why this has started happening?

none that i've found. one of our schools is still having problems with outlying MNVO cell providers. And i'm kinda at a loss as to what else to do. once we registered our numbers it took about 3-4 days and everything returned to normal.

 

[Colorado VoIP]

figured i'd bring this back up, couple of our school customers that have fully registered with first orion and free caller registry are still experiencing this call behavior. anyone else still experiencing this and if you were, what was the resolution? so far the two affected are both on flowroute and they are reporting nothing out of the ordinary on their side. blaming the receiving carrier (google voice and t mobile).

 

[SteveITS]

I have been reluctant to bring up changing carriers...would it follow the number to another SIP provider? Sigh

 

[Colorado VoIP]

I have been reluctant to bring up changing carriers...would it follow the number to another SIP provider? Sigh

we are experiencing these issues across 4 different carriers, though flowroute seems to be the main one since these schools have so much voice traffic. sick kids, etc etc.

 

[VoIPTools]

I have not found a reliable solution either.

We just lost a 128 because we couldn't solve the problem. This is a problem at both the carrier and network level. We have tried a couple of services that offer to help, and they do help a little, but so far nothing has been the silver bullet that truly fixes the problem.

If you are making a large number of short-duration phone calls, with many of the calls not answered, the calling pattern is the problem. The network sees this as typical of a spammer and their algorithms flag you even if you are performing legitimate phone calls. Swapping DIDs regularly is also typical of spammers and only serves to make the situation worse. Getting you off the suspected spammer lists is what these outside services are supposed to do, but so far, I have not found a service that actually works across the board.

We would all love to hear from someone that has found a service that actually works. In the case of our customer, they were contacting former hospital patients to ensure they are doing well, taking their medications, etc. It is a very important service and they could not do their work effectively because of this problem.

The phone network is broken in my opinion. We need a better process of identifying the good actors from the bad. I am not sure how we get around the HIPPA problem, but random audits, performed by AI, of actual phone calls might be one approach to automated validation. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of the companies managing the phone network and from what I can see, there is little we can do about it.

Has anyone had some success addressing this problem?

 

[Colorado VoIP]

man i'm sorry to hear that. they are certainly unhappy but so far not unhappy with us. we are using what I believed to be very good trunk providers. but this is beyond aggravating.

 

[VoIPTools]

Ironically, this same customer left Ring Central for the very same reason. Their hope was that we could magically fix the problem. But they will likely find the same problem everywhere they go unless someone comes up with the magic bullet.

Carriers are going to have to make a sufficient fuss to get the necessary focus on this problem. I don't think this should be a technically difficult problem to solve, we just need the people with influence to start screaming.

If I were in charge, I would:

• Create an international registry
• Companies would be required to provide details similar to the Dun & Bradstreet process (yes unpleasant)
• Companies, as part of the validation process, would have to agree to have phone calls periodically audited by AI
• AI would provide a score based on audited calls
• Carriers/Users would determine what is appropriate for a minimum score
• Carriers and Networks would have to maintain a list of blocked DIDs and why
• Carriers would not be able to resell DIDs if the number is currently on a blacklist
• There would be a well-defined dispute process
• Repeat offenders would get blacklisted and not be able to obtain new DIDs

This is just a list off the top of my head and whether any of these ideas are practical or legal is open to debate. This is not a USA problem, this is a world-wide problem. There has to be a better way to deal with actual spammers that does not adversely impact legitimate organizations.

 

[tdxvoice]

I haven't had a ton of time to test. I pushed my customers over to another SIP carrier and their calls have been delivered successfully so far. I have been testing with testnumber.org, which reads back your SHAKEN/STIR attestation level. Any calls with voip.ms are all over the place. I did notice after pushing all the numbers through freecallerregistry.com, the levels did hit A a few times, but mostly they were B. One my "temp" SIP carrier ironically, they are almost always C, but the calls are delivered! I have another system on Telnyx and they have been consistently A with no call delivery issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changes.

 

[Colorado VoIP]

that's interesting on the testnumber.org, call from customer's system affected by this and it's attestation level A, but high robocall risk. but at least something can read out information. our office number is level A but low robocall risk.

 

[craigps]

Hello all, any other feedback on this issue? All of my customers on with Flowroute and on 3CX, and experiencing the same....worse with ATT and Tmobile phones. I am having all customers do the caller registry and hiya verification....although, that seems to have mixed results from most people and flowroute support has not been of any help. Some people have stated that simply moving to Telnyx has helped....maybe they do verification on their numbers differently that it is more effective? Just trying to find a working solution and dont want to start moving people away from flowroute if that is not the answer. thanks