3CX & Grandstream 2010

[scottyork]

I've been using 3CX since v.3 and have been recommending it avidly up to now.

BUT is it just me or has development and testing been flaky since v.7 - on my setup v.7 onwards has been a retrograde step in reliability and some important core functionality.

1. The new web management interface since v.7 seems slow and buggy and is much more difficult to use particularly with extension and DDI setup - not helped by being unable to import the v6 backup for DDIs - an old problem now I know.
2. Voicemail emails since v7 have been less informative (the incoming CLI needs decoding from the obscure file name at the end of the email - not something an average user will do)
3. Support for Grandstream 2010 models seems to have been quietly dropped in v.8 (so am I to recommend spending £thousands to replace our investment in 30 handsets?)
4. BLFs are broken on Grandstream phones in v.8 - was this really tested properly?
5. Since v.7, the name of the DDI has not been displayed on GXP2010 models (important for my switchboard based in Hertfordshire to answer calls correctly to our London number and to a separate business line on a toll free number)
6. Since v.8, use with a receptionist position is severely compromised. - the incoming CLI is no longer displayed on the transferee's phone on a GXP2010 after an attended transfer (now only see the number of the transferring extension) and the soft ping heard on transfer no longer works so you can't tell when the transfer has completed and you can't see the caller's number. Only the same information is available in Call Assistant so the only place you can see the original CLI is in the ports/trunks display in the management interface. CRM then also doesn't work because it only has an internal extension number to lookup.

You may say, go and buy some Linksys phone or some the other current favourite (assuming these problems are not universal across all phone brands ) - but we have only recently (in business terms - 2 years ago) invested time and money in Grandstream phones which at the time were very much supported by 3CX and were even shown on the website as the example phone with a nice 3CX logo on the display! And at 30 phones times £100+ each, such a recommendation would be embarrassing to say the least!

3CX is so nearly there but I'm losing faith. I can accept new functionality being unreliable but each new release seems to break some old core functionality - and I've lost count of how many different attempts at Call Assistant I've seen!

 

[LeonidasG_3CX]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

BUT is it just me or has development and testing been flaky since v.7 - on my setup v.7 onwards has been a retrograde step in reliability and some important core functionality.

We are anything but "Flaky". Hundreds of Bugs have been reported and Fixed, forums are constantly checked for any Bug Reports.
From the reports of Version 8, i havent see any Important Core Functionality issues as you say.
Version 8 has been the most successful release of the phone system with very minimal issues compared to it's previous versions.

1. The new web management interface since v.7 seems slow and buggy and is much more difficult to use particularly with extension and DDI setup - not helped by being unable to import the v6 backup for DDIs - an old problem now I know.

In Version 7, the Web interface on some machines was slow due to refreshing times of Cassini, we made some Optimisations to the Web interface to fix those issues. We also added the ability to use Winforms in Version 8 which has only a few miliseconds of Delay and 0 Issues.

2. Voicemail emails since v7 have been less informative (the incoming CLI needs decoding from the obscure file name at the end of the email - not something an average user will do)

Not as hard as you make it sound, i can clearly see that 101 left a Voice mail to 100. What's so hard? The Underscore?

3. Support for Grandstream 2010 models seems to have been quietly dropped in v.8 (so am I to recommend spending £thousands to replace our investment in 30 handsets?)

I don't think so... Who said they are not supported anymore? There is a provisioning Template / There's a Guide on the Website for it.
How did you come to the Conclusion that they are not supported.

4. BLFs are broken on Grandstream phones in v.8 - was this really tested properly?

It was tested on many occasions because of the forum posts. People said that their grandstreams BLF wasnt working correctly, we tried reproducing any of the issues they had but did not have any problems.
We do not just sit on a chair with our hands down our pants all day you know.

5. Since v.7, the name of the DDI has not been displayed on GXP2010 models (important for my switchboard based in Hertfordshire to answer calls correctly to our London number and to a separate business line on a toll free number)

We test a lot of Phone Models every day, it is possible that we could of missed a GXP2010, but you should at least let us know on the forum that your GXP2010's are not working so we can check it before making a Complain thread.

6. Since v.8, use with a receptionist position is severely compromised. - the incoming CLI is no longer displayed on the transferee's phone on a GXP2010 after an attended transfer (now only see the number of the transferring extension) and the soft ping heard on transfer no longer works so you can't tell when the transfer has completed and you can't see the caller's number. Only the same information is available in Call Assistant so the only place you can see the original CLI is in the ports/trunks display in the management interface. CRM then also doesn't work because it only has an internal extension number to lookup.

Issues with the CRM being unable to lookup external / internal extensions were in Version 8 RC2 and they were fixed.
Can you try downloading today's Build and see if you can reproduce the same issue?

You may say, go and buy some Linksys phone or some the other current favourite (assuming these problems are not universal across all phone brands ) - but we have only recently (in business terms - 2 years ago) invested time and money in Grandstream phones which at the time were very much supported by 3CX and were even shown on the website as the example phone with a nice 3CX logo on the display! And at 30 phones times £100+ each, such a recommendation would be embarrassing to say the least!

So if you are a partner, the good thing to do would be to make a Support Ticket on our Support system and post your issues there to review, there are issues we cant simply reproduce because a user makes a thread on the forum saying: "I cant call Ext 999, what could be wrong?" and trust me there are such threads.

3CX is so nearly there but I'm losing faith. I can accept new functionality being unreliable but each new release seems to break some old core functionality - and I've lost count of how many different attempts at Call Assistant I've seen!

As i said. Either make Post describing your issues on the forum initially, if the people on the forum cant help you, i'd suggest you make a support ticket since you propably are a 3CX partner.

But before all that, try today's build and see if your issues are still there.

 

[scottyork]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Hi Leonidas,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I am not a partner and do not have a support ticket option. I am simply a long-term user who knows his way around SIP and has invested a lot of time getting 3CX to work nicely. But since v.7, some important parts of that work have been undone.

Running a phone system is not core business for me so I can't really indulge lots of time in a product in which new software releases introduce new problems in things that used to work.

My post is perhaps a little strong and I apologise if I have caused unnecessary irritation - however, I am deeply frustrated by my experiences with recent releases of the product and am reaching the stage where I may either revert to v.6 or take 3CX out of my production environment.

The reason for my post was not to complain but to try to understand whether my experiences are unique - in which case there may be fixes.

Not as hard as you make it sound, i can clearly see that 101 left a Voice mail to 100. What's so hard? The Underscore?

It is much harder than the email before version 7 and is not even labelled as a phone number. This is a typical external UK number string "File vmail_01582823551_226_20091109211500". My users are not programmers they do not understand this string of numbers. And what about the string at the end - I know it's a time-stamp but how do users know it is not an international number. Why do I need the receiving extension or time stamp in the string, I am told that in the subject line and time of the email - it just adds to confusion. I assure you it is very hard to understand for non-technical users. It seems much worse than the earlier version. Why change it? Please can we just put that information back in the subject line.

We are anything but "Flaky". Hundreds of Bugs have been reported and Fixed, forums are constantly checked for any Bug Reports.

Yes, my comment was unfair - you are indeed generally responsive.

Who said they are not supported anymore? There is a provisioning Template / There's a Guide on the Website for it.
How did you come to the Conclusion that they are not supported.

Very glad to hear they are still supported (if that is what you are saying). However, on this page, http://www.3cx.com/sip-phones/ only 2000 and 2020 (not 2010) are listed as supported. This page 3cx.com/blog/tag/firmware/ - this page is no longer available only relates to v.7 but perhaps needs updating.

In Version 7, the Web interface on some machines was slow due to refreshing times of Cassini, we made some Optimisations to the Web interface to fix those issues. We also added the ability to use Winforms in Version 8 which has only a few miliseconds of Delay and 0 Issues.

Yes it seems quicker so far but the "Inbound Rules" and "Extension" layouts in particular are much harder to use than in v.6 and before. And it is still seems slower than the old version. Why change it?

It was tested on many occasions because of the forum posts. People said that their grandstreams BLF wasnt working correctly, we tried reproducing any of the issues they had but did not have any problems.

I still have issues here but will try today' release. It is not helped by needing to re-boot every phone after a server re-start to re-sync the BLFs. Thanks for the last sentence (not quoted!). It gave me a much needed injection of laughter :lol:

Issues with the CRM being unable to lookup external / internal extensions were in Version 8 RC2 and they were fixed.
Can you try downloading today's Build and see if you can reproduce the same issue?

Issue was simply that the external number is not being passed to the Call Assistant app so it can't look up the external number - it looks up the internal number instead - but I will try today's release.

Points 5 & 6 are major problems - 5 particularly

5. Since v.7, the name of the DDI has not been displayed on GXP2010 models (important for my switchboard based in Hertfordshire to answer calls correctly to our London number and to a separate business line on a toll free number

. I will check todays' release and post again but I believe the information being passed to GXP2010 on call setup has been reduced compared with what was passed in v.6 and 5 at least. Can you check? Perhaps there is some other way of knowing from Call Assistant or the handset which number has been called? But in v.6 it worked beautifully via the handset.

Andy

 

[LeonidasG_3CX]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Ok so...


1) Maybe we can modify the Voice Mail Notification Template a bit and add some more lines that will more Clearly Report the Date / Time / Callers / Callee that left the Voice Mail instead of Unrecognisable Strings.



2) About the support of 2010's, i'll update the Wiki as soon as time permits me to do so.

3) Yes it seems quicker so far but the "Inbound Rules" and "Extension" layouts in particular are much harder to use than in v.6 and before. And it is still seems slower than the old version. Why change it?

A lot of requested to add some new features in the outbound Rules like the ability to assign a lot of DID's to any ports you like... etc.
Unfortunately for the Inbound Rules section nothing can be done because the Majority of the users currently want to have these Complex settings so they can configure everything to their tailored liking.

As for the Extensions Layout, all we added was a BlackList Section, a few more features in the "Other" Section and a "Simple" Forwarding Rules Section for anyone having trouble using Forwarding rules.
I cant see how these make these sections "Harder" to use. They just give you more options in the case you ever need something extra.

5. Since v.7, the name of the DDI has not been displayed on GXP2010 models (important for my switchboard based in Hertfordshire to answer calls correctly to our London number and to a separate business line on a toll free number

I'll double check on this when i can and see if something can be done, but usually for this kind of thing one would need direct access to your Pbx to see what's going so i might not be able to help you solve this issue.

 

[scottyork]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Hi

Maybe we can modify the Voice Mail Notification Template a bit and add some more lines that will more Clearly Report the Date / Time / Callers / Callee that left the Voice Mail instead of Unrecognisable Strings.

That would be fantastic.

On Inbound Rules, what I'd really like is the DDI name back in the summary view when the "Inbound Rules" part of the tree is highlighted. It used to be there in the old DDI section and makes identifying what you wish to edit much easier. I have about 40 numbers to manage and have to cross-refer to a user list to work out which one to edit.

On reflection, Extensions problem was really to do with responsiveness of the interface so if that is fixed then no more problems.

but usually for this kind of thing one would need direct access to your Pbx to see what's going so i might not be able to help you solve this issue.

I'm pretty certain it'll be repeatable. In v.6 the fourth line of the phone display showed the name of the DDI which had been called. So wherever that information was passed in v.6, ideally it would also be passed in v.8 I'm surprised nobody else is using the system with multiple numbers coming to the same extensions who need to know what number was called (e.g. like us with a centralised switchboard for several offices). Is there a workaround I'm missing? Can this be added instead to Call Assistant to avoid developing for just one phone brand?

Andy

 

[Vali_3CX]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Hi, Andy

Andy, I don't feel able to comment what you said, but I have one single question - and, believe me, it's not an ironical one: if you don't like, for some reasons, some releases/versions, why you don't use the one which proved the most convenient for you?

I mean, I'm still using today a graphic processing program released in (hard to believe!) 1993, 16 years ago. Why? Because it's great for what I'm doing on a regular basis. Yes, obviously it's discontinued, but I don't need more to feel this inconvenience. So, back to us, if a previous version provided best results for your environment, for your phones, for your needs, why you don't continue to use it? You may test any new release and, if you're not happy with, switch back to the most convenient one for you. Of course, when a program/software evolves, some of its old features are dropped, changed, discontinued, it became more complex and, as a consequence, difficult-er to be learn and understood. Personally, I'm feeling "lost" on almost all programs I'm using when they are updated - where is my shortcut? where is my custom toolbar? why this annoying window? why is slower? and so on.

Regards

 

[scottyork]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Hi Vali,

Yes, we might well do that. There were some minor issues for us in v.6 but I have this afternoon been discussing internally to see if we can recall what they were and whether they were show-stoppers.

On the other hand there are some very attractive features in the newer versions!

But maybe the real answer is for me to come over and spend a few weeks on holiday in Cyprus sorting it out... 8)

And my preferred graphics editor dates from 1998 - so I know exactly what you mean!

Andy

 

[LeonidasG_3CX]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Hi Vali,

But maybe the real answer is for me to come over and spend a few weeks on holiday in Cyprus sorting it out... 8)

Andy

Dont forget to bring your 3CX Server with you for troubleshooting

 

[scottyork]

Re: Getting Disillusioned with 3CX

Matt,

Yes, if I had my time again we'd go with Snom - though for a key-phone setup like ours, the price premium is very significant.

Interesting what you say - I've migrated most support to our normal IT provider now that (on my recommendation) he has rolled 3CX out to his other clients. He has used Snoms throughout those other installations and testing of new versions is done on those setups. The BLFs have always been much better on the Snoms. The rest of the functionality I mentioned above is not used on those other sites.

Basic Snom handsets + Call Assistant would probably now be a viable alternative but when we started, a mature version of Call Assistant was a distant dream!

BTW, BLFs working the best yet this morning on yesterday's release (no phone reboot required after restarting the server) and they seem to be staying in sync like they used to.

 

[Kevin Attard Compagno]

Hi Andy

Regarding the DID Name appearing on the Phone display...

Please go to "General -> Settings -> Global Options" in the 3CX Management Console and toggle the "Append Group and DID Names to CallerID on/off" and the "Append / Prepend" Option - If I have understood you correctly this option should give you what you need.

Hope this helps.

Regards

 

[scottyork]

Kevin,

Thanks it does. Spotted it on Friday after a post by kellyg. Used to be on (and work slightly differently) by default in v.6.

Posted it here https://www.3cx.com/community/threads/seeing-which-number-has-been-called-v-8.12334/

Just working through some of my other questions - and getting some good help from 3CX - before posting here again to wrap up.

Thanks for the help.