A customer complaint email I received after my first install. They do not recommend this system. :(

[qbitnetworking]

Hi everyone, I've had my first install of 3CX up and running for my first customer for about 2 months now. At first they seemed pretty happy with it . Naturally we had a few kinks to work out with how it was setup but they were happy with the call quality and feature set and anything was better than their old phone system. Now after they've gotten used to it and have started their busy season, a lot of the users are getting annoyed. I had the business owner write out an email listing all of the complaints and I have copied that below. I would be eternally grateful if someone here could tell me what could possibly be going wrong or if this is just normal for this system. I've built a strong relationship with this customer so this isn't a make or break situation but I'm afraid to try and sell it to someone else now. Thanks

Hi Jeremy,
Here are a couple of issues that kind of drive us nuts. There are more, but this is what I can think of at the moment.
1) If you are on a call, then hang up and another call is coming in you can't answer it. There must be some kind of delay after hanging up that prevents you from answering the next call so you have to get up and go to another phone to answer it.
2) If two people attempt to answer a call at the same time, the person that didn't get it doesn't know they didn't get it because the line is silent. So you have to say hello a few times before you hang up or you might hang up on a customer.
3) When dialing out, many times it takes 15-30 seconds of wait time before it actually dials the number. You can see the number you dialed on the screen, but nothing is happening
4) Many times when you are trying to page and you hit 253 or which ever zone you want to page only two of the numbers register on the display so it won't page. So unless you are looking at the display while you are dialing you don't realize it didn't work and are sitting there waiting for the tone in your ear to let you know it's ready to page.

This list isn't all inclusive, but are some of the most annoying ones.

Thanks

• 3CX Version Standard Annual 16.0.9
• Server OS Debian 9
• Is the 3CX Server Hosted and where? AWS t3.small
• IP Phone Make/Model/Firmware: Grandstream 2612P
• Provisioning Method: Pi 4b SBC
• Trunk Provider or Gateway Make/Model Bandwidth
• Has the Firewall Checker passed: Yes
• Are custom Phone Templates being used: No
• Also want to add that the customer has a 50mbps/50mbps fiber internet connection and are using all new Ubiquiti equipment including a UDM Pro.

 

[leejor]

I'm going to assume that point 1 refers to members of a ring group. that being the case, then , yes, that is how it works. A call will only go to sets in the ring group that are idle, they will not be presented to sets that become idle after the other sets are ringing. This has come up a number of times, and some have used work-arounds.

Number 2 is a bit odd, and I don't recall seeing that issue come up before. There may be something else at play.

The delay mentioned in number 3, may have something to do with the set itself, if it does not use a dialplan and must wait for a time-out period before sending digits,. However, 15 to 30 seconds is excessive. You would have to use the 3CX Activity log to determine where the delay(s) are occurring. It may also be trunk/provider related.

Number 4 sounds like a set, or "originator" issue. Is it only when paging, or when dialling other numbers?

 

[qbitnetworking]

I'm going to assume that point 1 refers to members of a ring group. that being the case, then , yes, that is how it works. A call will only go to sets in the ring group that are idle, they will not be presented to sets that become idle after the other sets are ringing. This has come up a number of times, and some have used work-arounds.

Number 2 is a bit odd, and I don't recall seeing that issue come up before. There may be something else at play.

The delay mentioned in number 3, may have something to do with the set itself, if it does not use a dialplan and must wait for a time-out period before sending digits,. However, 15 to 30 seconds is excessive. You would have to use the 3CX Activity log to determine where the delay(s) are occurring. It may also be trunk/provider related.

Number 4 sounds like a set, or "originator" issue. Is it only when paging, or when dialling other numbers?

Thanks Leejor I will take a look at some of your recommendations early this coming week and see what I can work out.

 

[JohnS_3CX]

1) If you are on a call, then hang up and another call is coming in you can't answer it. There must be some kind of delay after hanging up that prevents you from answering the next call so you have to get up and go to another phone to answer it.
2) If two people attempt to answer a call at the same time, the person that didn't get it doesn't know they didn't get it because the line is silent. So you have to say hello a few times before you hang up or you might hang up on a customer.
3) When dialing out, many times it takes 15-30 seconds of wait time before it actually dials the number. You can see the number you dialed on the screen, but nothing is happening
4) Many times when you are trying to page and you hit 253 or which ever zone you want to page only two of the numbers register on the display so it won't page. So unless you are looking at the display while you are dialing you don't realize it didn't work and are sitting there waiting for the tone in your ear to let you know it's ready to page.

Hi,

Some of the above problems are issues you are facing with the phones, and others possibly with the VM size rather than the 3CX system.

1) If the phone rings but you can't answer it, then the delay is entirely on the phone. If on the other hand the phone is not ringing at all, then you have to wait for the ringing strategy/type you selected to move on to your extension again (this is normal, use queues with Ring All for best results)

2) The person who didn't get it is silent, likely because the phone is delaying in responding to the message that came from the PBX informing it that the call was cancelled.

3) This can depend on the phone (delay in sending the call out), and the SIP provider (delay in connecting you). It could also potentially be related to the size of the machine you selected on AWS. Read this article and ensure the machine is correctly sized for your installation.
https://www.3cx.com/docs/recommended-hardware-specifications-for-3cx/

4) This is clearly a device matter, entirely unrelated to 3CX


Don't worry so much about the performance of the 3CX system:

- If you want to see if the phone sets are behind the issue then instruct one user to unplug their phone, and utilize the 3CX Windows app for a day. All the issues we suspect to be phone related should go away. Lower end phones tend to be slower but at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

- If you built and under-sized machine, then upgrade (even temporarily for a week) and get feedback from your customer.

 

[qbitnetworking]

Hi,

Some of the above problems are issues you are facing with the phones, and others possibly with the VM size rather than the 3CX system.

1) If the phone rings but you can't answer it, then the delay is entirely on the phone. If on the other hand the phone is not ringing at all, then you have to wait for the ringing strategy/type you selected to move on to your extension again (this is normal, use queues with Ring All for best results)

Okay I will take a look at using Call Queues instead for this.

2) The person who didn't get it is silent, likely because the phone is delaying in responding to the message that came from the PBX informing it that the call was cancelled.

Do you think this is a connection speed issue or a phone processor speed issue?

3) This can depend on the phone (delay in sending the call out), and the SIP provider (delay in connecting you). It could also potentially be related to the size of the machine you selected on AWS. Read this article and ensure the machine is correctly sized for your installation.
https://www.3cx.com/docs/recommended-hardware-specifications-fIor-3cx/

I'm using an AWS t3.small so it has 2 vCPUs and 2GB or RAM. That should be adequate.

Again, do you think it might be because of the phone?

4) This is clearly a device matter, entirely unrelated to 3CX

Sounds like I need to speak with Grandstream about why their 2612P is such a bad phone. The customer didn't need anything fancy but I'm beginning to think they are too low-end.

Don't worry so much about the performance of the 3CX system:

- If you want to see if the phone sets are behind the issue then instruct one user to unplug their phone, and utilize the 3CX Windows app for a day. All the issues we suspect to be phone related should go away. Lower end phones tend to be slower but at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

- If you built and under-sized machine, then upgrade (even temporarily for a week) and get feedback from your customer.

 

[Evolute IT]

Sounds like I need to speak with Grandstream about why their 2612P is such a bad phone. The customer didn't need anything fancy but I'm beginning to think they are too low-end.

They are "carrier-grade" according to GS, but the firmware is still a long way from being as stable as Yealink or Snom.

 

[qbitnetworking]

They are "carrier-grade" according to GS, but the firmware is still a long way from being as stable as Yealink or Snom.

I've heard a lot about Yealink. Curious which of the Yealink phones you would personally recommend? Thanks!

 

[SteveITS]

1) If you are on a call, then hang up and another call is coming in you can't answer it. There must be some kind of delay after hanging up that prevents you from answering the next call so you have to get up and go to another phone to answer it.

There is a "Pickup a call" dial code, or the Switchboard feature to answer calls.

 

[leejor]

What some have done, rather than use a queue, is to send unanswered calls to a second ring group, after a set time. This ring group can be made up of the same members as the first. Anyone now idle will get the call.

 

[Evolute IT]

I've heard a lot about Yealink. Curious which of the Yealink phones you would personally recommend? Thanks!

T5x and T4x (even tho some models are now EOL) are excellent.

 

[JohnS_3CX]

For points 2) and 3) I think it's better to just use the Windows client and see for yourself. Empirical evidence is preferable to opinion on any given day

Once the phone has been eliminated as a possible cause, we can look further up the line in case you still have problems

 

[qbitnetworking]

What some have done, rather than use a queue, is to send unanswered calls to a second ring group, after a set time. This ring group can be made up of the same members as the first. Anyone now idle will get the call.

That's a great idea. I have it setup similarly where calls come into the service counter first and then unanswered calls go to the second ring group which encompasses everyone but I'm going to incorporate your idea as well.

 

[qbitnetworking]

What some have done, rather than use a queue, is to send unanswered calls to a second ring group, after a set time. This ring group can be made up of the same members as the first. Anyone now idle will get the call.

Well I tried this method and received a not so happy call from the customer this morning about the effect that it had.

Before we had it so when a call came in, it went to Ring Group 1 (Service Counter) for 20 seconds. From there it went to Ring Group 2 (All) for 10 seconds.

Last night I changed it to go to Ring Group 1 (Service Counter) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 2 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 3 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 4 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 5 (All) for 10 seconds.

Somehow this caused all kinds of issues this morning. I didn't even get into the specifics of what was happening. I just changed it back right away. I asked again what was going wrong so I can give you an update here and then I'll edit this post with that.

Update from Customer:

When a call was coming in, I picked up the receiver to answer and no one was there, and the display on my phone changed to a symbol of an incoming call that was rejected and this was in red. Then Leanne tried to pick up the call and there was nothing on the other end, just silence. Then I tried picking it up a second time and I was able to answer the call. This exact series of events has happened twice this morning.

 

[leejor]

I would think that 5 seconds, is far too short a period of time, to allow someone to pick up a call.

You might want to observe how many rings occur, before someone picks up the phone. That would be the bare minimum, before the call goes elsewhere.

 

[Alphabetic]

Last night I changed it to go to Ring Group 1 (Service Counter) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 2 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 3 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 4 (Service Counter again) for 5 seconds --> Ring Group 5 (All) for 10 seconds.

Instead of looping the ring group why dont you change it to 20 seconds then send to RG5 for 10 seconds?

Ok re-reading the thread I can see why you've done it.

Really you need queues..

It's already been suggested to clear a call pickup BLF on all phones so they can pick up calls.

Have a longer ring time and introduce the call pick up key.

 

[qbitnetworking]

Instead of looping the ring group why dont you change it to 20 seconds then send to RG5 for 10 seconds?

That's how I originally had it set up and that's how its set up again. The problem was that if a call was coming in while someone was already on a call and then that person ended said call, they would not be able to answer the incoming call until it went to the "All" ring group (RG5). That's why I tried creating 4 of the same ring groups all lasting 5 seconds each to allow a person to pickup a call if they just hung up another call.

 

[Alphabetic]

That's how I originally had it set up and that's how its set up again. The problem was that if a call was coming in while someone was already on a call and then that person ended said call, they would not be able to answer the incoming call until it went to the "All" ring group (RG5). That's why I tried creating 4 of the same ring groups all lasting 5 seconds each to allow a person to pickup a call if they just hung up another call.

Aye, and then all phones get x missed call notifications and flashy lights

 

[qbitnetworking]

Aye, and then all phones get x missed call notifications and flashy lights

lol yeah that's another thing. Now every phone shows a ton of missed calls.

 

[leejor]

People will just have to have the patience to wait the 20 seconds, for the call to pass to the second ring group, if someone else doesn't pick it up in the meantime. If all else fails, consider a queue, as proposed earlier.

 

[Alphabetic]

lol yeah that's another thing. Now every phone shows a ton of missed calls.

You can turn those notifications off under each ext > phone prov setting.



If they have a small amount of paging groups you can BLF them so they canot make this mistake.

Are the phones on the latest firmware?

Just educate staff to press the send key after they've dialled their number then they wont have to wait 20 seconds for it to dial.