'Bundled' ISDN2 and Patton SmartNode problem.

[Ramon88]

Last week our old ISDN PABX broke down beyond (reasonable) repair. So we scrambled to get the parts together to have it replaced by a 3CX setup.

We used the following components:
- Win 2003 STD Server (Virtual Machine)
- 3CX (currently free edition - ordered PRO16 edition)
- A bunch of Linksys SPA 942's and P962's
- Patton SmartNode 4634 3 BRI (3XISDN) VOIP Gateway (Model SN4634/3BIS - Software version R5.2 2009-01-14 H323 SIP BRI - Hardware version 1.11)

We got everything basically working with a regular ISDN2 line (we plugged it into either BRI 0/0, 0/1 and 0/2). It can dial out over ISDN and receive calls over ISDN. The problem however is when we hook it up to the ISDN2 lines where it needs to work:

There are three NT1 ISDN2 connection boxes available. Two of them are 'bundled', so from the point of view of the caller we have 4 lines with the same telephone number. We can physically connect both NT1 boxes with BRI 0/0 and 0/1, however they do not work due to the 'bundle'. The remaining 'regular' NT1 ISDN2 line (different number) works without a problem.

Does anybody have an idea how to configure the Patton to work with the bundled ISDN2 lines?

Btw, we are located in the Netherlands and KPN provides the ISDN2 lines.

 

[discovery1]

If they are the same as the lines over here then there are actually 4 numbers - the primary number or "pilot" number that incoming callers dial and then 3 other numbers that the telco "steps" through to find the next spare one if it finds the first one is busy. You should be able to talk to KPN about the setup to see what they can do to assist.

 

[Ramon88]

Thanks for your reply.

Regrettably it is not that simple. The bundled lines simply don't 'work' with the same settings as a 'regular' ISND2 line. It's not even possible to call out with them.

A regular Siemens ISDN-DECT phone doesn't work with them as well, while plugged into the 'regular' ISDN2 line it works again. Bundled lines likely need different setting in the Patton and I'm at a loss how to set that up.

Left a message for Patton Support, but haven't heard from them since. Same goes for the company that sold us the Patton...

 

[Ramon88]

Ooohkay.. I solved it by doing something I tought wasn't possible here in the Netherlands.

Those 'bundled lines' should be configured as Point-to-Point instead of Point-to-MultiPoint. So in the Patton one can just change under Ports>BRI>Port bri 0/0 (etc) the value for Q.921 (ISDN Layer 2) Protocol from "pmp" to "pp" and it works.

Not thanks to Patton support, as they still didn't contact me... same goes for the seller of the Patton.

 

[discovery1]

It sounds as though it is the same as over here - the lines are all point-to-point and the bundling happens at the telco end.
I would generally think that all BRI ISDN connections are point-to-point as there are only 2 channels. A PRI of 30 channels is more likely to be multipoint.

 

[SY]

Ooohkay.. I solved it by doing something I tought wasn't possible here in the Netherlands.

Those 'bundled lines' should be configured as Point-to-Point instead of Point-to-MultiPoint. So in the Patton one can just change under Ports>BRI>Port bri 0/0 (etc) the value for Q.921 (ISDN Layer 2) Protocol from "pmp" to "pp" and it works.

Not thanks to Patton support, as they still didn't contact me... same goes for the seller of the Patton.

Does it mean that you have tried to "hack" the "KPN bundled" lines using the Patton ISDN gateway?
Why didn't you ask KPN support team?
Why do you publish the baseless "claim" addressed to Patton support team here?

 

[Ramon88]

Hi Stepan,

Does it mean that you have tried to "hack" the "KPN bundled" lines using the Patton ISDN gateway?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. We only had the Patton configured with the 3CX-generated config file, that we editted to have it use all three BRI ports of this particular Patton. That only worked with regular ISDN2 lines, as I have described. Today we found how to get the Patton to work with the 'bundled' ISDN2 lines by changing the protocol setting in the Patton from "pmp" to "pp". Noting more than that and to my relief it was not complicated to do, IF you knew what to do... What do you consider "hacking" here?

Why didn't you ask KPN support team?

KPN is the largest and oldest telco in the Netherlands. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPN to get an idea. They have good support compared to the other telco's, however they only deliver the lines and in this case not the Patton. Their idea of VOIP enabled bliss are closed systems (mainly Alcatel based). So we couldn't go there with such a specific question.

Why do you publish the baseless "claim" addressed to Patton support team here?

What do you consider " baseless"? We contacted Patton support by e-mail. According to their site we should have received a response within 24 hours (working days). We are now well beyond that and still we didn't hear from them. Support from the reseller did contact them (by e-mail) too even before that, and didn't recieve an answer either. E-mail was used because of the huge timezone difference. If you consider that a "baseless claim" be my guest. But you were wondering why I published that here. I guess that was because of my frustration with the setup and lack of support. Support on the product -here- in the Netherland is hard to get. Of course your mileage may vary. I'm sorry if I did thread on some toes, but this was -my- experience with the product so far. I'm not claiming anything beyond that and I'm hoping (and expecting) the Patton to do it's job as well as its KPN/Alcatel predecessor.

Btw, the reason we chose the Patton is due to 3CX supporting it. So that was the order and relation from our point of view. Anyway I hope somebody else can use this information. I'm happy to provide our configuration file for the Patton if you like.

@ discovery

It sounds as though it is the same as over here - the lines are all point-to-point and the bundling happens at the telco end.
I would generally think that all BRI ISDN connections are point-to-point as there are only 2 channels. A PRI of 30 channels is more likely to be multipoint.

Actually most consumer and small business ISDN2 lines are BRI here. The smallest PRI is ISDN30 here (I don't think they have ISDN15 here). So in our case we ended up with a mix of different types of ISDN2 lines.

 

[SY]

It looks like I didn't understand your posts published above and incorrectly interpret the "bundled".
Sorry for inconvenience, and excuse me if I've formulated my opinion in "offence" manner.

Thanks

 

[mbaltus]

Actually, ISDN15 and ISDN20 are well available in The Netherlands. Provided by KPN, but also by other Telco's/ISPs. To name a few, you can consider BBeyond, Tele2, Easynet and even Ziggo. The solution of most parties is that they install a dedicated 2mbit SDSL line with high service contract and set you up with an IAD to translate that to an E1. We have that set-up with a Patton SmartNode 4960 which works great.

Furthermore, I must agree with Ramon88 that Patton support in my case also does not have the best track-record in solving issues. In both cases I requested support, the request was forwarded to a Dutch distributor, who in the end contacted me. In both cases I was (luckily) able to solve the issues myself long before I heard from any of the parties.

 

[Ramon88]

@ Stepan
No problem, I understand this isn't a 'bashing-zone' and the topics need to remain useful.

@ mbaltus
Ah, that's progressive insight. On the other hand we can only get ISDN and (A)DSL lines from KPN where we are located. However we do have a high speed fiber link (leased line) right to a data centre in Amsterdam. When we have 3CX up and running the way we want it, it will be easy to connect a VOIP/Trunk provider through that infrastructure.

Btw, is it normal it takes about 12 seconds for a dial out over ISDN to establish a link/ring at the other end? I mean when we dial out the line is silent for about that time, which feels a bit longer than with our old PABX.

 

[mbaltus]

It can be normal. It has to do with the set-up of the outbound rules. 3CX doesn't know by default when the number is completed, so it awaits additional digits for some time. If you would hit the # or a DIAL button, 3CX should initiate the call instantly.

 

[Ramon88]

It can be normal. It has to do with the set-up of the outbound rules. 3CX doesn't know by default when the number is completed, so it awaits additional digits for some time. If you would hit the # or a DIAL button, 3CX should initiate the call instantly.

Little update:
Since we have connected all three BRI ports the system now dials out much quicker. I would dare say that was the reason why dialing out was so slow, as we had only connected one BRI port while all three were configured.

We do notice some unexpected behaviour of the LED indicator lights for the three BRI ports on the Patton. The 'bundled' ports (protocol 'pp') 0/0 and 0/1 have their 'Link' indicators lit constantly, even when no calls are coming in or going out. However the third port 0/2 (protocol 'pmp') 'Link' indicator only is lit when a call is coming in or going out over that line. Any ideas if this is 'normal' considering the different protocols used?