Ideas for non conventional setup

[elytronic]

We have a common office system setup with 20 extensions (901-920). We would like to connect the one apartment above our office (same network). The apartment will have 5 extensions e.g 931-935. What we would like though is the office to only "know" one extension for the apartment, (e.g 930 or 931) which can be done easily by hiding the extensions from the phonebook and by using ring groups to ring all apartment extensions together when the office is calling. My problem though is when we call from the apartment to the office, is there a trick to show only one extensions e.g 930 or 931 and not the true extension that is calling?

P.S. We would like to keep all 5 different extensions in the apartment and not use the same extension on all 5 phones

 

[elytronic]

Any ideas on this? I have been testing a few things but have not yet found a good enough solution.

 

[craigreilly]

What if every phone used ext 900 as the default - and when people placed calls, they just know to pickup a different "account/line precense" first.

 

[elytronic]

What if every phone used ext 900 as the default - and when people placed calls, they just know to pickup a different "account/line precense" first.

The apartment is a resi environment. Having to choose an account will make it quick difficult for the users.

 

[snowsam]

What do you want to see for caller id when the upstairs extension calls externally? What about for calls between upstairs extensions?

Personally, I would just live with the compromise you outlined in your email.

Two ideas not mentioned (because they don't solve the whole problem):
* You could manipulate caller id using the extension --> other --> outbound caller id
* You could set up all the upstairs extensions to point to the same single account?

 

[elytronic]

Any ideas on how to solve the above problem?

I thought I would find a solution but I am now running out of options...

 

[3CXfoxhallsolutions]

I've not tried this - so You'll need to experiment ...
Put the upstairs extensions into one ring group, and the downstairs extensions into another ...
Set up two 'phantom extensions' i.e. extensions that have no phones assigned, and are set 'PBX delivers Audio'.
On these extensions [General] configuration window, put the ring group number of the upstairs / downstairs group - as the 'Mobile Number' - then select 'Ring my extension and my mobile at the same time'.

What this should give you, is a single extension number that downstairs can use to call up, and another single extension number that upstairs can call down. The bit I'm not sure about, is if the caller ID will show as the Phantom extension number - or the original caller i.e.the originating extension ...???

 

[lneblett]

What type of phones are in play?

 

[elytronic]

What do you want to see for caller id when the upstairs extension calls externally?

This is working fine. We just see one the DIDs chosen. All apartments extensions use the same external DID for now but we can change it if we want.

What about for calls between upstairs extensions?

I would prefer to show their real extension number i.e their room name. This way we can gain the advantages from individual extensions in the apartment.

* You could manipulate caller id using the extension --> other --> outbound caller id

We have done this but it only works for caller id, not for internal calls.

* You could set up all the upstairs extensions to point to the same single account?

If all the apartment phones are set on the same extension number then we loose all the advantages of having extensions for each room in the first place. We loose paging, intercom but also the ability to call an individual room.

 

[elytronic]

What type of phones are in play?

Phones are mostly Cisco SPA525. We also have 2xSP504, 2xSP514 and 2x Grandstream GXV3104 but they are more for testing. I also plan to test a Snom 720 and the Panasonic cordless, if it matters...

 

[elytronic]

I've not tried this - so You'll need to experiment ...
Put the upstairs extensions into one ring group, and the downstairs extensions into another ...
Set up two 'phantom extensions' i.e. extensions that have no phones assigned, and are set 'PBX delivers Audio'.
On these extensions [General] configuration window, put the ring group number of the upstairs / downstairs group - as the 'Mobile Number' - then select 'Ring my extension and my mobile at the same time'.

What this should give you, is a single extension number that downstairs can use to call up,

This is a good idea so that there is only one internal number i.e extension to call the apartment. It can be done the way you have described but it can be done also this way: Using forwarding rules on one of the apartment extensions (or on a virtual apartment extension) forward all calls to the apartment ring group. This should be set for both no answer and busy calls and no answer should be set to 1s.

I have to admit though that the way you described might be better in order to get one internal number for the apartment.

The bit I'm not sure about, is if the caller ID will show as the Phantom extension number - or the original caller i.e.the originating extension ...???

Unfortunately with both methods you will get the original extension number. Also for the office, we do not want to set one number but be able to call individual extensions.

 

[elytronic]

Guys to be honest I think what I am trying to ask 3CX to do is not possible and it is very unconventional: Basically I am asking extension group 1 (office) to be able to call extensions group 2 (apartment) using only one internal number and this can be done, but I am also asking that we only show a virtual extension or one extension number when extension group 2 calls any extension in group 1.

Maybe one way this can be done is if 3CX provided an option in extensions groups so that all extensions can "hide" under the extension group or under one extension.

 

[lneblett]

I was curious about the phones as I thought I might try and play as well.

The issue I see is that you somehow want the phones to react differently based upon geography. The killer scenario you indicated is that if the upstairs called an upstairs, you want the phones to display their true identity. However, if any of the upstairs called downstairs, you wanted the display to show a singular, common identity.

One way would be to give all 5 of the upstairs' extensions the same extension number within the system. This way all 5 phones really do show downstairs as the one extension. It also simplifies the downstairs dialing back up as all 5 will ring. You could then (also) assign the upstairs' extensions SIP IDs (on the other tab) which then allows you to dial any one of the upstair phones individually using this number so that not all 5 ring. Only those upstairs need know the SIP numbers, but it will still show the "common" extension number.

YOU did not mention how vmail and the like might come into play with the desired set-up. I will give it some more thought, but I am not optimistic that there is a solution for it as....clearly the scenario is not one that has come up much....if at all.

 

[elytronic]

One way would be to give all 5 of the upstairs' extensions the same extension number within the system. This way all 5 phones really do show downstairs as the one extension. It also simplifies the downstairs dialing back up as all 5 will ring. You could then (also) assign the upstairs' extensions SIP IDs (on the other tab) which then allows you to dial any one of the upstair phones individually using this number so that not all 5 ring. Only those upstairs need know the SIP numbers, but it will still show the "common" extension number.

This is a very good idea but I am having trouble executing it. Giving the same extension to many phones by provisioning means that only one is visible in 3CX management under extensions. I can also do this manually from the phones' interface of course but again with both methods I can not change the sip id on all phones - I think the sip id is only available in 3cx managment and not on the phone web interface.

 

[GManNAtl]

lneblett has presented you with the most straightforward way of doing this. Which is to just register them all to the same extension. However, you are correct that this breaks the auto provision. Any new phone will have to be setup manually. However, once this is done I you really shouldn't have to touch it. Honestly, having to provision 5 phones manually is not that big a deal if you are only doing it once.

 

[elytronic]

lneblett has presented you with the most straightforward way of doing this. Which is to just register them all to the same extension. However, you are correct that this breaks the auto provision. Any new phone will have to be setup manually. However, once this is done I you really shouldn't have to touch it. Honestly, having to provision 5 phones manually is not that big a deal if you are only doing it once.

Ι agree fully, but when you setup manually a phone (Cisco SPA) is there any place to insert the SIP ID? - I think that is only possible in the 3cx management interface?

 

[lneblett]

That is true, but it is 3CX that manages this aspect. It is mapped within 3CX and it will manage the translation.

 

[elytronic]

That is true, but it is 3CX that manages this aspect. It is mapped within 3CX and it will manage the translation.

Is it possible to guide me how to do this please?

 

[lneblett]

Sorry, I was thinking of a different scenario at the time.

Leave the SIP ID field blank within 3CX for each phone in this case. I keep forgetting that while you can have more than one extension with the same extension number and most likely, 3CX will have a different IP for each, they still only allow the one SIP ID.

However, all may not be lost just yet. It will not be perfect by any means, but SIP dialing is still possible within the phones.
Setup all five phones upstairs with the common extension, say "500". This allows a single number to be dialed from the downstairs or the upstairs and all five will ring and regardless only the one number will display when the upstairs' makes a call. I also assume that external calls will be treated similarly...they too will only be able to reach 500.

Use a phone that has enough speed dial locations to accommodate the desire number of upstairs phones. You can then program the SD locations with something like [email protected], [email protected], etc. It is assumed that each phone will have its own IP and that each is static and perhaps if lucky enough, the IP assigned could correlate to extension, room or other meaningful number that allows a better understanding of call originator to be had.

A Cisco 509G, Yealink T28/38 might be some of possible contenders. I am sure there are others, but at least these can support a fair number of accounts using the display as opposed to having to write name/locations on a paper template.

You will then have other decisions to make such as any potential modifications to the dial plans that may be necessary and if you want the phones to be registered or not in order to make a call. As this is a phone to phone direct call, registration with 3CX may not be necessary in order to complete this type of call. Some may have settings that allow/disallow direct SIP calls.
I am not certain what may show up in the display on the receiving end as I suppose it could be the display name, extension, etc. Needless to say, this requires manual configuration of the phones and a setting to disallow auto provisioning.

Quite simply, I do not know a way to get exactly what you want, but this may be close enough.

My understanding of the situation is that the upstairs is a residence comprised of 5 phones and that the desire is more akin to a traditional analog environment that should a call come in, they should all ring. This implies to me that the residence will have a DID as well such that external calls will automatically get routed to ext 500. Conversely, the same is true for any call originating from the downstairs area to the upstairs....simply dial 500. And of course, any outbound call from the upstairs should only reflect the one extension (500). The challenge comes into play when it is desired to place an extension to extension call from within the upstairs area only and each party knows where the other is and prefers not to "ring the house down".

SIP ID is one, the other is to create the primary 500 account for position 1 (on all phones, same as I have outlined) and publish accordingly so all know and then add extensions to the other DSS keys (BLF) in a standard manner and hide from the rest of the world - kitchen is always position 5, living is 4, etc. and hide as best you can from MyPhone, company phonebook, and disable external calls from these 'home" extensions (except 500). If set as BLF, one can then see all extensions, their respective status and then even use as a speed dial. You might then be able to modify the dial plan within each phone such that all extensions other than 500 can only call to those extensions and numbers that have been explicitly stated from within the dial plan. In other words, the kitchen phone could reach any number when the default account (500) is used, but only reach 911, 500, 501, 502, 503, etc. when any other DDS is pressed and an attempt is made to make a call. Again, manual programming, but I think the later scenario gets you what you want even better than SIP Id. This means that you need a phone that can handle X number of accounts simultaneously a common and then one for each extension where only common will not suffice. As each phone will still have its own IP, you should still be able to conduct multiple simultaneous calls using 500.