newbie with testing for austria

[m.nigg]

hi,

we are currently intensivly testing 3cx and have some problems after all:

1) the wedamin is not accurate at all. there are lot's of missunderstandings where you currently are, and where you are jumping to.

2) the use of terms is different in webadmin and 3cx softphone. i really would recommend that finally both products use the same terms in the gui ...

3) why do i get the voicemail in wave format and e.g. not mp3? smaller and faster ...

4) why you are not support complex passwords for the admin account?

5) the authentication id of an extension should always be numbers otherwise it wont work. have you ever thought about connecting to user database of an windows server ads oder manually importing them? most user logins are "s.lastname" or "surname.lastname". so if i would be able to import accounts to add or simple a passwort connection method to the ads server (like mdaemon mailserver does), it would save me and my customers a lot of time managing ...

6) if you still insist of numbers for the authentication id, so simply write this in the manual! because i tried a few minutes and gave up till i tried only numbers and it worked ... very funny!

7) why is the cti/tapi client is only available for the enterprise package? there are lots of normal phonesystems which deliver that for FREE with their phonesystem and the price difference is not really bigger to your 3cx ...

8) if i want to use extension lines form outside via voipprovider by a number e.g. "0720 123456 100" (sipgate.at) NO provider in austria and germany is capeable of delivering such extensions and it will still take more months to have them. what 3cx thinks about that?

9) furthermore i REALLY do miss an exact manuall which ports are to be opened form external to internal if i want to call out and get calles in via voip-provider, and which ports are to be open if my employee is outside (not by vpn). all this stuff has to be tested for yourself.

what i think is that you let support and testing be done by customers ... and that is not business for communication!

any answer would be nice, thank you so far!


sincerly
marty

[/list]

 

[DaKhalli]

dont know bout all the other questions, but for the last one check my faq

http://www.3cx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1697

 

[Anonymous]

1) the wedamin is not accurate at all. there are lot's of missunderstandings where you currently are, and where you are jumping to.

Follow the manual.
1. create extension
2. create gateway
3. create provider

Done.
I think the webadmin is not to bad at all, if you looking for a workflow to configure the system you can ask yourself the question if that is needed. Especially if you only have to configure it once.

2) the use of terms is different in webadmin and 3cx softphone. i really would recommend that finally both products use the same terms in the gui ...

Same company, different products. I expect that in the future they both will start to look and feel the same, but for now I guess they want to focus on the IP-PBX. Give it time.

3) why do i get the voicemail in wave format and e.g. not mp3? smaller and faster ...

Don't know, either one would be good I guess. I would like MP3 as the WAV is not supported by Vista.

if i want to use extension lines form outside via voipprovider by a number e.g. "0720 123456 100" (sipgate.at) NO provider in austria and germany is capeable of delivering such extensions and it will still take more months to have them. what 3cx thinks about that?

So what do you suggest it should be?

7) why is the cti/tapi client is only available for the enterprise package? there are lots of normal phonesystems which deliver that for FREE with their phonesystem and the price difference is not really bigger to your 3cx ...

This i do not understand, if it is for free what has the price difference got to do with it?

what i think is that you let support and testing be done by customers ... and that is not business for communication!

Ehhh, why do you think there is a free version and why do you think there is this forum????

What do you mean by ".......and that is not business for communication!"

 

[m.nigg]

...

hi people,

thanks for your reply but i wanted answers from 3cx itself.
well we are thinking about getting a RESELLER here in austria/europe for 3cx, because we believe there is a market here for small companies (5-25 users and more).

and because there is not very lot of information available for our country to have a complete product including 3cx software, 3cx pc, hardware gateway to isdn/analog lines, soft- & hardphones and the most suitefull voip-provider and most important telling and showing small companies how to use the complete system in their best way, we are testing it very hard in all expectable points.

we ARE already a good reseller for mail-, proxy- and informationservers here and know that products very well. and because of that we want to make the same with 3cx ...
but no other company selling mail- or communication products give support only via forum to RESELLERS and PARTNERS.

well i "heard" the founder of 3cx was the founder of gfi software which were famous of "faxmaker" and other very good products for ms "exchange". everytime we had a problem at our customers we could call gfi directly and solve problems ... which was very important to us and our customers. so i thought that guy knows how to give fast and accurate support which most times needs a live discussion on the phone.

and if you look at the differences of the packages then you can read "problem? call DEALER!". so if i am getting DEALER i should know more and better about the system than a user or guys like you - please apologize for that - and know everything directly from the company itself.

and therefore i am very disappointed about the forum solution.

so now to my questions:

1) forget the manual. i mean the system of using the webadmin is not really exactly and handy for admin's - it is not completly intuitive. i DID read the manual and there are missing lot's of explanations and why's and because of's.
i would really recommend some examples about constellations what can happen and how to build systems for companies ...

2) same company different products does not interrest me or my customers. i think it is not very difficulty at all to use the same terms in the softphone and webadmin ... and if the softphone uses more alike terms of other softproducts so the webadmin should be changed. look at all the forum questions: if there would be used more accurat terms there might be less questions - especially about login and passwort. every software uses the word "login" and not "id" ...?

3) thank you for that ;-)

8) extension lines: i think the market of voip providers here in austria and germany is far away of supporting us to build "business solutions" for companies for good money (the are all building their own "soup"). the market want's have the same funktions in ISDN and VOIP.
i wanted to hear if there are some other experiences out there in other countries ...

7) well i compared the 3cx system with an oldfashioned isdn phone system of agfeo (germany). the price is nearly the same (small business) and has a FREE included tapi- and cti-client.
i mean you could use the softphone client for cti maybe, but i dont know if 3cx can handle a softphone AND hardphone for the same extension number ... you have to trick with more numbers and that's nonsense. am i right?

free version: we am not interested in the free version (only to make customers "hot") and 3cx company couldn't be also because otherwise they don't earn money and can't pay their people. simply isn't it or am i wrong?

well to get a reseller or partner i should not have to need the forum instead i should have the opportunity to call them and discuss all that stuff.

so this explains that we WANT to make business and earn a few buck's just like 3cx should want to do. and if not, they can tell us ...

thank's for advice to the faq's but have you looked into the forum? if the faq's would have lot's of answers especially about the firewall/internal/external questions, there wouldn't be so much question about that ...

thank you never the less for your help!
i already saw that you ("itfarmer") are a real expert - thank you for your work!

 

[Anonymous]

There is a lot I can agree with and some of the things might be better to discuss over a nice cup of coffee .

I had the similair problem re manuals support etc. so I got stuck into it myself 3CX is (honestly) working on the doco, they are trying to get it wright.

They also rely heavy on boys and girls (like you and me) to support the product in the country we reselling it.

I am a 3CX partner and sell the software online (Australia and New Zealand), the way I see that working is that I provide support by phone or direct email to all my customers who purchased the software directly from me.
Nevertheless, i still have a few emails and calls from the strangest places in the world asking questions etc. No problem with that if there is no partner in that country but if there is a partner I expect people to call that partner in their country, I really have to bounce some back as it is getting a bit much at the moment. Happy to support the partners directly.

Support directly from 3CX.... i think it is close to excellent too be honest. The support to partners and customers is not only via the forum, the forum compliments the support. You get direct email access to 3CX support and they have a ticket system you use to get answer on your questions. Sofar all my questions (all 2 of them ) been answered within 12hrs so that is pretty darn good.

extension lines: i think the market of voip providers here in austria and germany is far away of supporting us to build "business solutions" for companies for good money (the are all building their own "soup"). the market want's have the same funktions in ISDN and VOIP.
i wanted to hear if there are some other experiences out there in other countries ...

Still not sure what you are asking here? but that is just me not understanding it i guess.

I think we are pretty much on the same page:

- documentation, they (3CX)work on manuals and trying to improve them as we speek, but if we do not point out what we think is missing they will not fix it (how would they know?). As a partner you get some teco doco too help you to trouble shoot the logs etc. I still have troubles with that document so I put that one aside and work it out as I go. But again they work on that, and will get it wright. It is not easy to write good doco and it is a skill not many of us have.
I wrote a SPA3102 and 3cx config guide, that seems to work well, when I get time I write a dummy guide type thing for 3cx but that is the thing time is not on my side at the moment. So yep more quality doco will be good, mind you there is a lot online already.
- Support, this is where you might not known that there is a ticket system and email support for partners and resellers. I am not sure of phone support but to prevent that every customer calls their head office they might want to restrict that and lean on the partners. So far the support I get from the guys at 3cx as a partner is excellent.


Conclusion:
I think, although a few things need fixing and I am confident it will over time. When you become a partner you are expected to support the product in your country/area that is why you sign up to be a partner. Your customers can get direct email support with 3CX or phone support with you. It is expected that for selling the software you most likely have to put some work into understanding, installing and troubleshooting the product. I find once you done a few different configuration you can simply insall the software and use the backup/restore function to have it configured or use the templates that come with the software. Honest it is easier to configure than Cisco Callmanager .

(Darn, this must be the longest post I done in a while).

 

[m.nigg]

...

well now you understand me in most points.
but i am not agreeding with you with email support for partners because this is going to slow for a main communication system in a company.
ok there are small problems which can wait 12 hrs for fixing, but if there "is really trouble in the house" i can't want for a sh.. email or ticket system ...
i tried to call them in the hq here in europe - in cyprus - they not even wanted to talk to me! i said if there is somebody available for getting partner, but nothing - and that is not really satisfying me.

for comparisment: if i have a problem with a siemens, avaya/tenovis, ericsson or agfeo phone system (most popular here in austria & germany) i get answers immediatly or in a few hours - but all done by phone/mobile call!!!

extension lines: if i register at sipgate.at (for example) i will get a normal phone number "0720 735815" so i will be available for callings via pstn line. which means you can call me with mobile phone and the incoming call to me is voip (no gateway is needed). so far ok?
now the point is: i want that customers can call that number plus can get to the boss directly on his extension number "222". means dialling "0720 735815 222" - ok?
the problem: most voip-providers in austria and germany do NOT support such extension numbers. no, instead you have to order and pay different numbers for every person or group which should be contactable from outside. have you every wrote 24 different numbers on a company website?
and that's a major problem for doing business and building a business solution with 3cx or more: with all voip systems.
i can only add them as a plus to an old system ...

let's explain a system:
in austria you only need a tiny little small pstn line (analog or isdn, we call it) to get a normal phone number and a fast adsl or better sdsl internet line.
the analog/isdn line is for phone backup purposes and a fax - because fax over voip makes only problems right now ...
and because of the big sdsl line and the phone number of the voip provider, you can use that number for phone calls - incoming and outgoing.
so you only have to pay aud 280,- per month (with 4mbit sdsl) here and can place 4 or 6 calls at once.
compared to do that oldfanshioned way you have to pay aud 350,- plus a big investment in the phone system.
but again the point: you don't get internals extension lines which can be reached directly from the outside which is used all and everywhere here in europe.

thx!

 

[Anonymous]

ok there are small problems which can wait 12 hrs for fixing, but if there "is really trouble in the house" i can't want for a sh.. email or ticket system ...

Fair enough.

i tried to call them in the hq here in europe - in cyprus - they not even wanted to talk to me! i said if there is somebody available for getting partner, but nothing - and that is not really satisfying me.

No that would not satisfy me either, I even would walk away from it to be honest. That is simply not on. Fortunately I did not have that as yet. That is just plain bad, well the way you describe it that is.

now the point is: i want that customers can call that number plus can get to the boss directly on his extension number "222". means dialling "0720 735815 222" - ok?

Sort of true, by reading your response it looks like it works the same here in au. I too have a phone number that is provided by my ADSL (VSP) provider (we still do adsl here not sdsl) i use this for my company phone simply because I can use 3CX to route it where I want it. For example +61 7 3129 0672 dials my office 200 is my desk number so people dial my office they hear the ivr "1 one for this 2 for that etc and if you know the extension dial it now" That is how it is intended you can dial the extension at anytime during the IVR message. Not sure if that helps you but for sure cut out the cost. You see it a lot here in au that the business cards have the pbx number and for direct connect please dial the extension. It is seen as office number to connect to the office and than a second DTMF burst that connects to the person. It is a neat way of doing it actually.

for comparisment: if i have a problem with a siemens, avaya/tenovis, ericsson or agfeo phone system (most popular here in austria & germany) i get answers immediatly or in a few hours - but all done by phone/mobile call!!!

Yep, fair to expect that, but you name some big players who have the capital to do so. Mind you i done a lot of dealings with ericsson, Nortel, Cisco, Siemens on switches for telco's etc they where not always that quick either, but that is besides the point.
For the fast turn arround well you need either become a partner or find a partner and you remain distributer. For example here in AU and NZ all the software I sold to either resellers or end-users they would have me calling them back within 4hrs or if I could fix it on the phone i would do that. I even remote access some systems so I can configure or manage their 3CX box. It is as easy as that, but that is for my customers or for special arrangement.

Looks like in your case, you want to sell a full package but want someone sitting above you to provide full support incase the wheels fall of. All I can say that someone up there in the North should jump on that and help you out. If it was up to me we would be in business already I can see a huge opportunity here, you just need a 3CX valued professional backing you up I guess.


On that note, if there is anything I can help you with or you want to have a serious chat about this drop me a message or give me a call. Keep in mind the time difference Ill be doing a lot onsite work the next 6-18 months so if you can't get me on the mobile leave a message (not really what you want to hear) which actually might work in your advantage.

 

[Costas3CX]

4) why you are not support complex passwords for the admin account?

-

Currently our system only accepts small letters, capital letters and numbers in the admin password. We will examine the issue more closely and if improvements are possible we will try to implement them as soon as possible.

5) the authentication id of an extension should always be numbers otherwise it wont work. have you ever thought about connecting to user database of an windows server ads oder manually importing them? most user logins are "s.lastname" or "surname.lastname". so if i would be able to import accounts to add or simple a passwort connection method to the ads server (like mdaemon mailserver does), it would save me and my customers a lot of time managing ...

-

what do you mean the auth.id must always be numbers? i have tried what you are saying with letters+numbers and it works fine. How did you test this? what phone did you use?

 

[archie]

5) the authentication id of an extension should always be numbers otherwise it wont work. have you ever thought about connecting to user database of an windows server ads oder manually importing them? most user logins are "s.lastname" or "surname.lastname". so if i would be able to import accounts to add or simple a passwort connection method to the ads server (like mdaemon mailserver does), it would save me and my customers a lot of time managing ...

6) if you still insist of numbers for the authentication id, so simply write this in the manual! because i tried a few minutes and gave up till i tried only numbers and it worked ... very funny!

5) I've just tested russian, greek, hebrew, arabic characters entered to Authentication ID field. It works just great with Snom and XLite phones, but I wouldn't guarantee that all phones can support multilanguage input. Snom does. XLite does. But there's always some who doesn't. It's not a problem of 3CX PBX, thongh.

6) As it said in 5), I've just tested it myself WITH letters in MANY DIFFERENT languages, not speaking of ASCII symbols. So, I think it's the problem of the phone you've been using. Or you've just mistyped.

 

[m.nigg]

...

thanx for testing.
i just tried again: i entered "m.nigg" in the id filed of 3cx-server (v3.0.1928.0) and then in 3cx-softphone. but after that registering keept yellwo in the client and the main server log tells me: "Registration request from sip:100@xxxxxxxxxx failed. Reason: Credentials don't match, check that authorization-ID and password match the ones in extension settings".
sorry i am not stupid and not able to enter a correct login and password. and the password was "1234" ...

do i have an old buggy release of the server and softphone?
thx

 

[archie]

The problem is in 3CX Phone. It's not buggy (at least not in this regards), but it's outdated. It doesn't have separate field for auth-id, so it is always equal to extension number. And extension number should be of fixed number of digits (it's a common practice for most PBXs).

Anyway, you're free to use any 3rd party softphone, and there're a lot of them around. Freeware, shareware, anything you like. Mind that we're selling IP PBX, not softphone.

We're in developing of completely new softphone which will have a lot of advanced features, but its first beta will be available not earlier than in a month.

 

[m.nigg]

...

so this means, your softphone does need the exact field "authentication" of the 3cx server but is capeable of using letters.
well ok, but why i can't read that in your manual?
ok, now i know.
as reseller i want to keep people using 3cx not other clients except hardware phones.

by the way, do you maybe know which phones http://www.swyx.com is using? they look like the normal siemens phones but are ip based ...?

 

[archie]

As a reseller you will have a brand new softphone completely compatible with PBX in a short while. We were just focused on PBX, and now starting to implement it. But at the moment i wouldn't recommend to use 3CX Softphone.

No, I don't know what Swyx is using. I'm developer of 3CX PBX, and neither marketolog, nor reseller of Swyx.

 

[N_G]

Feedback

Hi M.nigg

Thank you for your feedback. To be quite honest i don't agree with some of the points, but I can see that you are seriously interested in our product and of course this is a good start!