Out of office hours, IVR is still actif ???

[hansmarc]

Hi,

Version 3cx : V15.5.15502.6

We have a strange behaviour while in 'OUT of office hours'.
The sip trunk is directed to : when in 'OUT of office hours' to the voicemail of extension 11 and when 'IN office hours' to a IVR where the caller has to select option 1 or 2.

Our client told us that sometimes, even at breaktime 12h00...13h00, users passed the voicemail box. First we tought that had to do something with the '*' key that direct you to the mailbox of that extension. But yesterday we found the problem. When the user hears the message from extension 11 he can push button '1' or '2' and is directed to another extension in function what is defined in the IVR.

It seems that the IVR is actif even when in 'OUT of office hours' and it should not. Is this a bug in V15 ????

Thanks
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Hans,

The voicemail menu is completely unrelated to the Digital Receptionist IVRs.

If you press 1 or 2 during the voicemail greeting then you should just hear the greeting repeat (default behavior).

If they press * however, it will take them to the operator extension, and if the operator has any forwards (ie. to an IVR or group etc) that's where the caller will end up.

 

[AWS2P]

Where and how have you set office hours? do you use breaks?
Can you screen copy your hour range (hide sensitives info if needed)

did you set specific hours and automatic switch in extension 11 ?

 

[hansmarc]

Hi,

some answers on previous replies :

there are no specific office hours for extension 11. Only in the settings menu, 09h00...12h00 and 13h30...17hr.
I tested it myself when they were in breaktime today, i get the voicemail message from ext 11 (announcement with opening hours) and when i push button '1' i am directed to the secretary ext 16, when i push 2 i am directed to another extension as set in the IVR. And as you mention John, i am pushed to the voicemail box when i push the '*' button.

What i forgot to mention is that there is a CFD actif that directs the trunk to a different extension or group based on day and time. Ex tuesday morning all is directed to ext 16 and in the afternoon to a admin group.

I suppose that the first level is still the office hour setting and if we are outside office hours the CFD is not executed. But even it is executed, there is no redirection to the IVR in this CFD. I assure you that the system reacts as if the IVR is active while i hear the ext 11 message outside office hours.

Who can explain me what is going on.

Bye
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Hans,

You can disable CFD altogether and check again. You should not face this issue then, unless the user presses * (that sends you to the operator). Maybe check your CFD and build a new one in case you have issues.

I would also recommend to upgrade to V16 so you can use the newer CFD and Queue Manager.

 

[AWS2P]

there are no specific office hours for extension 11. Only in the settings menu, 09h00...12h00 and 13h30...17hr.

As you set two separate range of hours (9-12 13:30-17) you use available and DND status only, so you said you were in away status, this can't happen with hours set like yours and with no specific hours elsewhere than in general settings, but with your CFD ???

 

[hansmarc]

Hi,

i did some testing this evening, compared settings on the client site with our own pbx settings.
It is not the IVR or the CFD who are the cause of our problem. When we push a trunk to a extensions voicemail you can break out with '*' to go to the voicemail box. What i discovered is that when you push another button like '1' or '2' you are directed to the operator extension that is set in the general pbx settings called 'Callers who transfer out of Voicemail or other menus will be forwarded here'. I thought that only the '' was active and no other key.

Is this by design ??? because if it is the case everybody can break out of the voicemail box and go to the operator extension. I think that the purpose of a voicemail box is that it should block callers when out off office hours. A voicemail message and box have no sense .....if you can break out .....

John can you give me your opinion on this behaviour please.

Thanks
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Hans,

You call the trunk > The trunk sends the call to a VM box > You press * while you hear the greeting > You get transferred to the operator extension > The operator either rings or forwards you to their destination that is active during that time you called.

1. The * button connecting you to the operator is by design.

2. Breaking out by pressing buttons 1 or 2 is not by design. They are programmed to simply repeat the voicemail greeting.

 

[hansmarc]

Hi John,

i made a mistake in my previous answer.
As you say pushing the '*' button pushes you to the operator extension and not he voiemail box.

But as i explained before when we push one of the numeric buttons we are also pushed to the operator extension. I tested this on our own pbx V16p3 installation and get the same behaviour. I don't understand why.

Routing used in both cases (client V15 and our own V16 pbx) :
trunk is called by a outside call, when out of office hours the call is pushed to a extension11 voicemail box that is different from the operator extension extension 16.
Extension 11 has no forwarding rule and is in 'available' status'.
When we push '*' we are forwarded to the operator extension 16. Ok this is by design.

But i assure you that on both systems when we push a numkey we are also pushed to the operator extension 16. It should repeat the voicemail message of ext 11 as you say but this is not the case.

What do i wrong ????

Thanks
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Hans,

Firstly I must apologize, my original testing methodology was flawed and I misled you. During my V15.5SP6 test, I noticed my operator extension was unregistered, and I was causing a loop in my operator's VM box.

The default behavior as soon as you reach the voicemail and pressing any key other than # is to connect you to the operator. So the phenomenon you described in your original post is indeed correct. This is not a bug, we are sending the caller to Operator by design when they press anything other than #.

I suggest in your case, if you do not want the caller to go to the operator, you will have to send the operator EXT elsewhere during out of office hours. For example you can send it to the VM of EXT 11.

 

[hansmarc]

Hi John,

we installed this morning a fully new 3cx (v16) pbx and we just finished testing. I confirm, as you say in your previous response, any key goes to the operator.

Ok but this is a nasty behaviour. I explain you why.

On our client pbx we installed a IVR with option 1 and 2, both go to a different extension / service. Clients who call on a regular base knows about option 1 and 2. The problem is that when you are in 'out of office hours' those clients don't even listen any more the ivr message and because of their habits they push immediately button 1 or 2. Result they pass to the operator extension even when in lunchtime. Thus the VM box and in/out of office hours have no sense because everyone can bypass it.

In my opinion the purpose of 'in/out office hours' and a VM is that you want to block callers.
If you don't want to block callers simply don't define office hours.

I know i can set up i virtual extension with a VM box to who i direct the operator extension when someone bypass the first VM but this needs a second vm recording to announce that the office is closed for the moment. It seems to me more more logical that this is and should be done by the first VM box.
By the way, as you propose, send it to the VM of ext 11 but again they can also breakout by pressing any key.

Why make things so complicated, this is not logical.
Leave the '*' key to bypass but not the numkeys.

Thanks
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Hans,

For now this functionality will remain as-is. So in order to control this in your case, you will have to use a different flow like you describe above.

So the complete flow would be:

1. Create a Notifier EXT that will act as a notifier and VM handler with a custom welcome message (We are closed thank you, please leave a message). This is always unregistered.
2. Set Notifier EXT to always send calls to its own VM in all statuses
3. Set Operator EXT to auto-switch to DND during out of business hours
4. Set Operator VM to also go to Notifier's VM when it switches to DND

I anyone calls and reaches the Notifier and presses any button other than #, they will just hear the Notifier's greeting again (it will go to Operator who is DND -> then go to Notifier VM again)

 

[hansmarc]

Hi John,

i don't want to stalk 3cx ....ok i accept but can you explain me, because i want to understand, why this bypass is made possible by design.

I am curious, are there other users that need this option in some situations that i don't know off.
I repeat myself and it seems logical to me, a vm box and the possibility to leave a message is used to block callers because you want to block them and not to offer them also a backdoor ....

Thanks
Hans

 

[JohnS_3CX]

A VM is just meant to be a VM really, if it can play a greeting and take a message then it has already done its job.

It's not designed or meant to be used for blocking. It's not to meant to be used as a notifier extension either but you might want to use it this way if it happens to serve you in which case that's fine. There are many functions you can achieve by mixing and matching various options of the PBX that were not specifically designed for that reason. VM is just not the solution for blocking in this case I'm afraid..

The buttons all send you to the operator as a way to make sure you reach someone. Maybe you don't speak english so you press any button to see what will happen or maybe you reach a voicemail by mistake or maybe its an emergency etc etc. There is not ultimate or hidden reason, but my point is now that you know it works this way you can program the system accordingly to achieve what you want.

Besides, if you just want a blocker, you can play around in CFD and allow your creativity to make something that does what you want exactly

 

[hansmarc]

Hi John,

ok i understand.
You understand that i compare a vm with a old tape answering machine, once the machine activated a caller could not bypass it. The owner of the machine could lift off to speak to the caller but it is the owner who decided not the caller.

Suggestion for a futur version, can 3cx add a option that we can check in a extension vm tab that de/activate this breakout option. I know that in the IDEE forum another option is asked by a lot of users for a long time : disable recording after the vm message. Some of our clients don't take messages, they only want to pronounce by example their opening hours. This could be a second option in the same tab.

And these options prevents a lot of work to create workarounds .....

Thanks a lot,
Hans

 

[AWS2P]

Hi hans,
agree with you about options for VM, asked since long time for a simple VM without option to leave a message, with quick direct access to messages not having to hear each time lot of codes options you don't remember since the third is given etc.... lots of simple or small changes in 3CX seems to be laborious to have, we are not speaking the same english as 3cx.

 

[hansmarc]

Hi John and other followers,

my last response on this subject with a smile.

what must we to do to speak the same Englisch as 3CX .........

Bye
Hans