Patton 4114 echo

[Doberman_Tech]

Hey guys, I see this gets brought up quite a bit and have done a lot of searching and reading but haven't seen anyone talk about the issue I am seeing with this Patton. The issue being that for about the first 30 seconds of the call they have an echo. After 30 seconds it goes away and then at random times they pick the echo back up. I have run through the echo cancellation setup in this page:

https://www.patton.com/support/kb_art.asp?art=445&

It seemed to help quite a bit but obviously I am still getting hints of echo. Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[leejor]

Does this occur on all calls, or, just certain ones, (long distance?) Which end hears the echo?
It may be a "level" problem, where the end hearing echo is sending audio that is a bit too loud for the echo suppressors to overcome.

 

[Doberman_Tech]

It is only occurring during outbound calls and the office itself is the only one who hears the echo

 

[leejor]

I have seen echo issues happen when callers use a set that, unbeknownst to them, was boosting the outgoing level (they had some sort of headset attached to the sets). You might also look into increasing outgoing padding in the gateway. this might only require a slight tweak, so go slowly.

 

[eddv123]

Hi Doberman_Tech,

If this guide does not solve the issue I would suggest using SSH to login to the command-line on the unit and running the below debugging commands.

They will give a full output for Patton support, you can then raise it with them with a full description - they are very helpful: https://www.patton.com/support/

enable
show running‐config
debug call‐router
debug call‐control
debug fxo
debug ccfxo
debug context sip‐gateway signaling detail 5
debug context sip‐gateway transport detail 5
debug context sip‐gateway error

A PCAP trace of the audio output in Wireshark would be helpful also.

 

[Doberman_Tech]

I have seen echo issues happen when callers use a set that, unbeknownst to them, was boosting the outgoing level (they had some sort of headset attached to the sets). You might also look into increasing outgoing padding in the gateway. this might only require a slight tweak, so go slowly.

Where would I find the outgoing padding settings?

 

[CentrexJ]

Doberman are these yealink T4xG series phones? We have found some locations have issues when using Patton sn4114 with echo and duplex (heard only on local end).

 

[eddv123]

If anywhere it would most likely be in the VoIP Profile. However I don't ever recall seeing such a setting on an FXO variant. I am aware of digital padding but that is it.

 

[leejor]

This thread talks about adjusting the gain in the PSTN profile. Haven't used the Pattons, so I'm not familiar with the settings available. https://www.3cx.com/community/threads/patton-sn4114-jo-eui-call-volume-low.5944/

There is also a chance that the phone lines, from your provider, are causing this. In some cases, if you are very close to the central office, or a remote, that is supplying dialtone, because the line length is short, the audio level may be higher than expected. There may also be an impedance mismatch issue.

 

[eddv123]

Whilst on the subject of lines also ensure you don't have any PBX like features on the lines, over here it is called "feature line ".

However I don't think it would cause echo but always good to check as it is quite common and cause a lot of other issues.

 

[leejor]

Looking at the Feature Line offerings in the UK, it would seem to be a package of features that are meant to be used (easily) with a specific phone (looks to be a Nortel type set) that has many of these pre-programmed. In North America some companies offer something similar, in addition, there are services such as Centrex (other names as well), that offer PBX features without on premise equipment. While the dial features vary, the type of physical line equipment is the same as regular POTS service, for an analogue set. There are business services that use special phones (analogue voice/digital signalling), and different line equipment types, these lines cannot be used with a PSTN gateway anyway.

As providers attempt to reduce the amount of copper used to get service to subscribers, many are now served by fibre, or t1/E1 fed remotes, closer to their location. Being very close to a subscribers equipment can cause issues (echo) if something other than "normal" analogue sets are being used. This might be the case in this instance. Since you are hearing echo, it suggests that you are sending a high level to the far end, which then sends it back to you, as it cannot be suppressed.

As a last resort, after checking to see what charges may be involved, you may what to have you provider check the lines, or at least confirm that your dialtone doesn't originate in the basement of your building, or next door.

 

[eddv123]

We have had a lot of instances of feature line being enabled without customer knowledge over here so always worth a check.

Installers spend a lot of time troubleshooting only to find it to being something that the have had no control of.

Most issues regarding featureline have had reports of normally effect actual call behaviour as opposed to call quality etc.

 

[Doberman_Tech]

Doberman are these yealink T4xG series phones? We have found some locations have issues when using Patton sn4114 with echo and duplex (heard only on local end).

Yes we are using T46's on the system. The odd thing here is the fact that I have another client with the exact same setup on POTS lines but no echo. I am going to try bringing the TX and RX down by 5 and see if this helps at all

 

[Doberman_Tech]

SO here is what I have found after doing some extensive testing with the phones. I went on site and tried taking the DB down in the patton. This did not resolve the issue just made the end user here me at a quieter volume. I then started adjusting the volume down on the T46's and the echo went away and the end user could hear me just fine. I also could hear him just fine and he is soft spoken. Now the client is saying that they can hear the users calling them.

 

[leejor]

Now the client is saying that they can hear the users calling them.

So....that means it is resolved?

The odd thing here is the fact that I have another client with the exact same setup on POTS lines but no echo.

The difference may be that the POTS lines in the two locations may have different physical characteristics. This may be the distance to the central office line equipment, or the type of equipment that provides dial tone, or the settings that the provider has chosen (they can choose padding as well). It all can affect what settings work best, for that one location.

 

[Doberman_Tech]

So....that means it is resolved?



The difference may be that the POTS lines in the two locations may have different physical characteristics. This may be the distance to the central office line equipment, or the type of equipment that provides dial tone, or the settings that the provider has chosen (they can choose padding as well). It all can affect what settings work best, for that one location.

No as the volume has to be turned down on the phones and they want to be able to turn them all the way up t hear callers

 

[leejor]

If the local users were hearing echo, then it is their transmit volume that probably need to be "turned" down. So if anyone is going to complain, it sould be the people they are calling. You may have to do a balancing act between level settings in both the sets, and the gateway.

 

[Doberman_Tech]

Okay so I finally figured this out after some pretty in depth analysis. What I found was I needed to change the default PSTN profile so instead of being adaptive it was set to silence and then change the input gain so it was -3dB once I did that I could turn the phones all the way up and no echo. Been that way for 24 hours and no complaints

 

[leejor]

Glad it worked out. Hopefully no more issues.