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3cx network hopping -- between 4g/wifi causes client to lose connection

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We've recently installed a new 3CX system at our school. We're currently using iPhones (2 x iPhone 5 & 1 x iPhone 6) for our walkaround phones, however, they seem to be having issues maintaining call connections when walking around the school. We've also tried using the app on an Android phone, which appears to have the same issue.

While in a call and walking down the corridor. The call will start off clear but will start to lag and then eventually disconnect resulting in the call being dropped. We are currently using a mixture of HP MSM422s & HP E-MSM430s with the firmware version of 5.5.2.1-01-10012 across the board. The iPhones are all connected to the same SSID and are primarily contacting other stationary 3CX phones on the local network. The IPs for the iPhones are all handled by DHCP as well.
I had a call externally going on Wi-Fi and when I left the Wi-Fi range the 3CX client dropped the call on my end but left if going on the other persons (internal) end.
First of all you should consult this HPE Knowledge Article
There should be noted that even some households use Fast BSS transition feature of OpenWrt!
Seamless Roaming allows your supported device such as an iPad® or iPhone® to roam between a supported Linksys Max-Stream router or range extender products (make sure that the latest firmware is installed with Seamless Roaming support). Seamless Roaming guarantees no dropped Voice over IP (VoIP) calls, no lag streaming video/video calls such as FaceTime® or Skype™.

As wireless devices improve in power and portability, exceptional on-the-go performance is expected from devices such as tablets, cell phones, and mobile VoIPs. Starting with firmware version 3.7.26 on the first Gen UniFi AP line, and version 3.7.21 on the second Gen UniFi AP line, UAPs automatically deploy Fast Roaming for improved roaming performance.
ezgif.com-resize-3.gif

By reducing authentication steps with 802.11r, Fast Roaming considerably improves handoff time on UniFi APs. This improvement is most pronounced on WPA2-Enterprise networks, but BSS Transition similarly reduces steps on WPA2-Personal (WPA2-PSK) networks by allowing clients to quickly negotiate with any AP on the network.
We can see how easy is to enable those options on TEW-WLC100.
Captive portal should not be an obstacle for this app. It is expected that normal devices will connect only to known networks. It is not reasonable to expect that every call will be saved, but from this we can see demand for such feature.

In API 23 it is even possible to detect NET_CAPABILITY_CAPTIVE_PORTAL, but there is no need.

More importantly is to use onLost NetworkCallback to immediately activate local HD on hold music. Next callback to expect is onAvailable when new network is ready.

Captive portal should not be an obstacle for this app. It is expected that normal devices will connect only to known networks. It is not reasonable to expect that every call will be saved, but from this we can see demand for such feature.

PBX will not play on hold music if reinvite is not supported on specific in-office extension when mobile app switches to out of office.

If mobile app is not reconnected after 30s, PBX should send PUSH info about parked call.

User will have same problem with blocked ports anytime the device is connected to that network and he will not use it again.
  • A VPN or some other form of tunneling would let you keep the connection open.
    But re-connections take several seconds and then the server would need to know when you're off so it can enable music-on-hold.
    No impossible to do, but I doubt any server will have this feature built-in.
  • My Samsung S5 has a feature that lets switch seamlessly between GSM and WiFi.
    Packets all appear to come from a single IP address. This would prevent connection losses as long as either WiFi AND GSM is available.
  • Since the PBX would be in the middle, I'd think it could maintain a connection on one side right after the other side vanishes without properly saying "goodbye".
  • I think it would be possible with Asterisk's conferencing functionality, for example.
    If the call from you to the destination is actually two separate calls (1) from you to the PBX and
    (2) from the PBX to your destination, then when part (1) drops, there's no reason to think you couldn't quickly redial into the PBX and rejoin the caller (2) who's technically "waiting alone in the conference room".
  • A new interface (wifi) is brought online, and the phone then has two IP addresses--one from the cellular network and one from the wifi network. The handset *should* be smart enough to not break an existing connection and should keep it live on the old interface (as long as the interface is still up)--any new connections should form on the new, higher-priority interface, but existing ones shouldn't be broken.
  • One would think it would, but it doesn't. If a connection breaks, Asterisk hangs up the call.
  • This is something that, frankly, should be fundamental as part of a modern Asterisk core.
    VoIP is inherently subject to network issues, and the default behavior of Asterisk if a connection breaks should be to put the call on hold and reconnect it when the IP connection is reestablished.
  • Try updating to Android 6.0 please and use its SIP dialer instead of third party app. Call would not drop during hand over between Wi-Fi and mobile data, but you get dead air at both ends during hand over period that could last many seconds.
If it were possible, as you desire, the re-connect time may be more than just "a few seconds", and in fact, depending on each scenario, may be long enough to cause the other end to hang up, thinking they were dropped, especially if it happened mid sentence.
They could hang up even with music. After 1 min prompt may notify that user is still in tunnel.o_O

And how they do it:
As the video shows, when connected to a mobile network that supports Call Continuity and if implemented by an OEM, a smartphone powered by an LTE capable Snapdragon processor is capable of handling off the call from the LTE cell tower to a known Wi-Fi access point, or vice versa, without dropping it. To decide when to execute the switch, the LTE capable Snapdragon processor is designed to check the strength of the Wi-Fi signal — switching the call to Wi-Fi when it’s strong, and switching to LTE when it weakens. This addresses the two caveats of Wi-Fi calling discussed earlier.
 
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Sopock, I totally agree. It comforts me (a little) that I'm not the only spokesperson who feels this way about the general stability and usability of the app because of this.

FYI:
We have now escalated this problem as high as possible through to 3CX Sales/Direction (especially through to Sebastian Balan) as last resort to get 3CX to tackle this situation and resolve it.

If not, the 3CX app will be marked 'Unsuited for business usage'. That means deployment will be fully stopped and existing installations will be rolled back. This is due to the fact that bottom line, users cannot count on the stability of the app, rendering it unusable.
It's a pity if this would happen to such a promising app, however I would fully agree with this decision.

@3cx Staff:
Stability, userfriendlyness and robustness should be at the very core of the application since the users that are using it on a daily basis, are the customers that are paying you and us to supply and maintain it.
Please contact me (through my contact details in the forum or our reseller profile, or via Sebastian) to follow up on this with your official statement.
 
@Otto Lodewijk
Please tell me, it's possible to make a video call from WhatsApp to FaceTime? I'm asking because you mentioned them as reference for 3CX client.
 
@Otto Lodewijk
Please tell me, it's possible to make a video call from WhatsApp to FaceTime? I'm asking because you mentioned them as reference for 3CX client.
Hi Vali. No, you cannot make a videocall from WhatsApp to FaceTime as those are two different platforms with their own proprietary protocols (to my knowledge). Also, I do not know why you are bringing this up since this seems completely irrelevant from the issue discussed in this topic?

Whatsapp Audio and FaceTime Audio were mentioned by me in comparison for audio dropouts and call reliability. Both platforms are succesfully able to let a call survive a few lost pings, which 3CX app does not, and is seriously causing issues and frustrations on a large scale.
 
Aha... So, to quote you, both "are two different platforms with their own proprietary protocols". Like Skype, the one you also mentioned as a reference to 3CX client.

Well, here's the trick: unlike them, 3CX client is, at its core, a generic SIP client - it can connect to 3CX PBX, Asterix PBX, to a Cisco, Polycom, snom, Yealink, Grandstream, whatever. Like them, the basic functionality is telephony - while WhatsApp, Skype and FaceTime's is messaging.

If 3CXPhoneSystem would be proprietary - goodbye compatibility with the mentioned Cisco, Polycom, snom, Yealink, Grandstream, goodbye SIP trunks and bridges. Just curious, it's possible to install a WhatsApp, Skype or FaceTime server in a company? To assign extension, rights, groups, ring groups, queues to employees?
 
If 3CXPhoneSystem would be proprietary - goodbye compatibility with the mentioned Cisco, Polycom, snom, Yealink, Grandstream, goodbye SIP trunks and bridges. Just curious, it's possible to install a WhatsApp, Skype or FaceTime server in a company? To assign extension, rights, groups, ring groups, queues to employees?
Let's not go this way.
All my posts (and I'm sure, also the ones of the other users) are genuinely meant to positively and openly point out a problem with the 3CX software.
Users nowadays use a lot of other communications apps such as WhatsApp+FaceTime and are 'used' to their features and performance.
Along with a few other users, we're pointing out an issue that prevents 3CX App from offering the same seamless experience as those others out there - and we would like to get that fixed, one way or the other. Would that be possible?

And regarding your last question:
Yes, Skype for Business does. I think it's best if we don't pursue our conversation further in this direction and focus on the main issue pointed out in this thread.
 
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I hope that everyone here are aware that mobile app will not connect to any other softswitch!

https://www.3cx.com/community/threads/compatibility-with-softswitch.42010/
Try CSIP simple client for Android. Configure manually all obligatory fields (in yellow) in advanced settings wizard during installation.
We have now escalated this problem as high as possible through to 3CX Sales/Direction (especially through to Sebastian Balan) as last resort to get 3CX to tackle this situation and resolve it.
I hope that @Nick Galea will realize that this is cause of 2 star reviews:
Can't answer phone calls from lock screen, messes up Bluetooth headsets, calls drop on network change, etc.
The Network change call drop is something that's always been like this on our app. Very few other apps offer this functionality.
 
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Otto, Sorry, you're wrong here: you said, basically, that 3CX client doesn't perform as well as WhatsApp, Skype and FaceTime does. And I tried to explain you that they are not in the same category (telephony/messaging, generic/proprietary, simultaneous calls/one "room"). And I told you we tried already, seven years ago, three years ago... Complexity of supporting multiple calls (and interops between them) far exceeds those of only one call/room, not to forget network/configuration conditions which are completely out of our control.

It's place for improvement? Definitely yes. To 100 bulletproof? No.
 
At the end of the day, the issue is a real simple one and one that many other apps seem to handle seamlessly, yet 3cx doesn't. It NEEDS to be fixed pronto.

3CX as a company also needs to take customer (Both direct (As i am one of them) and through resellers) feedback seriously, and at times the way they respond is seen by at least me and likely others to be "Biting the hand that feeds them".

Do some customers suck and are painful, yes, but they are the ones making it possible for you to get paid doing something you *Hopefully* love doing.

At the end of the day if you piss off enough customers, you will have no job and then no money eventually.

And the issue i'm talking about is connectivity across multiple networks.
 
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Out of curiosity, because i haven't tried this myself, if you are on a WhatsApp call, or a Skype call, and the Wifi connection you are using, drops, for whatever reason. If your phone is within range of a previously used , but different network, Wifi signal (so sign-in is automatic), or, it has 3/4G also enabled, at the time, do you loose the call, or is it able to stay up?
 
Out of curiosity, because i haven't tried this myself, if you are on a WhatsApp call, or a Skype call, and the Wifi connection you are using, drops, for whatever reason. If your phone is within range of a previously used , but different network, Wifi signal (so sign-in is automatic), or, it has 3/4G also enabled, at the time, do you loose the call, or is it able to stay up?

That would be interesting to know.
 
I made some tests with whatsapp call, skype, and cisco jabber. the other applications/solutions can handle the hopping/roaming between different networks.
 
I made some tests with whatsapp call, skype, and cisco jabber. the other applications/solutions can handle the hopping/roaming between different networks.

You tested transitioning from...WiFi to WiFi, 4G to WiFi, WiFi to 4G?
I use WhatsApp rarely (none of the other Apps), but on an Android phone that uses wifi only, no mobile carrier activated, so no 3/4G. I will try WiFi to WiFi and see what happens.
 
I think you need a better grasp of what is going on with the 3rd part apps like FaceTime/WhatsApp/Facebook. So fundamentally what you are expecting is seamless hand-off between networks. Sounds easy enough but what you don't realize that there is a Session Border Controller between you and the 3rd party servers that are able to handle the transition. 3CX does not have an enterprise SBC built in to it. So what happens is that your WiFi call is using the internal IP of your 3CX host and when you drop off the network to use 4G or another SSID it is using a different data path. So what is happening when you go from your inside wifi to 3G/4G is that the client is now going to use the tunnel to reconnect your registration and not the internal WiFi with the local IP settings. So the app is not behaving wrong, it is doing what it is designed to do. So with that said 3CX would have to implement a couple things.

1. Partner with eSBC vendors (AudioCodes makes a great one that is physical or virtual)
2. Implement SBC proxy awareness.

Another option would be for 3CX to implement call offering to a mobile phone number instead of the client. If the client could connect but not be used as a sip agent but only for call setup and control, and allow the calls to be sent to the mobile number you could get around the need for an eSBC all together. So let's say you wanted to make a call from the 3CX client. The call request would be sent from the phone to the 3CX server which would then send a request you your defined mobile 10digit number and then you would answer the call in that manner. There is the caveat of having to use two sip trunk lines but it does eliminate the issue with calls dropping.

I believe this could be done but will take some implementation and probably would only be useful in enterprise settings.

As a side note I tried this with using google hangouts in a voice call and when i switched networks there was a 3 second pause in audio until it resumed but the call did not drop.
 
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Update from our end, as we also have/had a lot of these problems:
Switching the clients' phones to 4G only (and forgetting the corporate wifi network entirely) and refraining from using any bluetooth devices as extension, seems to migitate the problems for now.
So for now, it's 'solved' as of my knowledge.
We're switching other clients to Skype for Business, which also solves this problem (due to their own protocol, which can survive network switching)
 
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