Confused about "for Windows"

[Videoblitz]

I am a little confused about 3CX PBX is named "Windows based," but doesn't use default Windows software like IIS.

Apache is a fine webserver, but the Windows versions have a lot more bugs and less modules are available than the coresponding Linux versions and ... Apache is not a default Windows software.

So 'normally' on a Windows based production system IIS (or/and Apache), PHP, MySQL, PostgrSQL, Perl, Python a.s.o. are running, before installing the 3CX PBX.

I don't understand why it is necessary to install a second/third/... webserver (conflicts are programmed) and other packages like PHP and PostgreSQL one time more to get in conflict with installed packages, (system search-) paths and used ports.

I suggest to make an installer, which
a) installs only packages, if they are not formerly installed and if install, then using not outdated packages (additional download/install from official publisher?), standard pathnames (not below 3CX folder), default ports and default service-names to avoid confusing the administrators
b) contain add-ons (extensions) for PHP in several API versions (e.g. phpSHIELD.dll and php_cmstatus.dll), which are not included in the official PHP download packages

I also suggest to give the option to use MySQL instead of PostgreSQL, because the penetration of MySQL is much more times greater than PostgreSQL


BTW: I'm still looking for a PHP 5.2 API version of php_cmstatus.dll to get my 3CX PBX on production system running for evaluation

 

[SIPfun]

You can get a brand new PC, with XP for $250... and 3CX works out of the box.

You may be able to get Linux and Asterix for free... but I have to wonder how fast it will be up and running by comparison.

 

[darrellchapman]

Although I too would prefer MSSQL and IIS, off the top of my head I can think of a few good reasons they chose Apache and Postgres:

1) Apache and Postgres can both be deployed quite easily: just extract and run with your preconfigured installations
2) IIS on Windows XP has a maximum connection limit.
3) IIS deployment would require you locate the original OS cd.
4) SQL Server Express implements a 1GB max memory usage quota.
5) SQL Server Express does not include an easy way to back up the database (excuse me, doesn't have an "automated way" to back up).

 

[Thona]

Sadly not exactly true enough - some points are utter crap. Like the 10 connection limit - that is a TCP limit of the OS in XP, so it ALSO hits 3cx anyway IIS has no connection limit, but uses the OS

And SQL Server Express has NO 1GB limit. It has some limits, but - first they are higher, second this is irrelevant because i do not see 3cx use more than 64mb sql server capacity.
And automated way to backup a database is something I can script you in 5 minutes - just submit the proper sql script. Guess what - 3cx can do exactly the same

 

[silentfun]

Heyllo,

I would agree that if this is a windows product MS SQL and IIS sure would make much more sense.
(We are having a postgres.exe instance grabbing cpu, and with this database I don't know where to start...We have 2 MCDBA sql guys at our office if it was MS SQL...)

Matt

I have the postgres grabbing too - so it seems to be a design issue. i read some times more here about that.

how can we get this solved? i have invested much time in this and it starts to give me a bad feeling - i hope from release to release - every release i take some time to evaluate if the issues are away.

i think would be better to start a tabel with issues and if they are solved they can be checked.

And Nick please don´t answer on this with "We don´t know of any issues" PLEASE

I still believe in 3CX but i can only repeat what Chesus sait some time before "Father where are you ?"

Andy

 

[Anonymous]

I have the postgres grabbing too - so it seems to be a design issue. i read some times more here about that.

how can we get this solved?

The postgres grabbing resources issue is a known one and we have just finished compiling an extensive bug report. Please know that we are working (very hard!) on the issue.

I still believe in 3CX but i can only repeat what Chesus sait some time before "Father where are you ?"

The lord works in mysterious ways

 

[darrellchapman]

Thona,

No reason to call someone's statements "utter crap." If you disagree with something, provide valid points to backup your statements instead of just disagreeing.

1) You're right on the first point. The TCP connection limit is an OS limit and yes it does apply to 3CX as well. But the majority of communication with 3CX is UDP correct (correct me if I'm wrong)? And thus not affected by the TCP connection limit? My point specifically dealt with TCP connections along with IIS. Those requests to IIS for configuration and/or monitoring ARE affected.

2) The limit I was referring to in SQL Server Express is memory allocation and not database size. It is well documented that SQL Server Express can use no more than 1GB in physical memory. Maybe not enough to limit it's usage with 3CX but it's a valid point nonetheless. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms165672.aspx

3) As far as the database backup goes... Remember Thona, 3CX is written so that anyone can install and run the software without having a dedicated IT person on staff to maintain it. Yes, SQL Server Express can be backed up through the use of some "clever" Transact-SQL scripts (this is what we do for our Express installation), but for the average user this is not built-in, nor all that easy to setup.

 

[darrellchapman]

Thanks Matt, somehow I missed that post too and just saw it today.

 

[Thona]

But the majority of communication with 3CX is UDP correct (correct me if I'm wrong)?

You are wrong, IIRC. 3cx is SIP based - while the audio streams are UDB based, the SIP command channel is TCP based. This leaves a REALLY low limit on how many users you can handle with 10 TCP connections, ESPECIALLY if you are also doing other things with the OS. It may be usable for 2-3 people, but that is about it. Now, here is the trick - if you talk about something like that, then the hardware to run 3cx is already more expensive than a really low end voip pbx based on cheap hardware, and you definitly do not need more for just 2-3 people.

This limit in XP was always seriously low even for the work as workstation - i mean, having a handfull of open shares on servers, plus some TCP connections (browsers making downloads) and you are easily over the 10 connection limit as a normal user. I would have understood something like 32 or 64 connections, but 10 was too low - that is why that got changed.

Maybe not enough to limit it's usage with 3CX but it's a valid point nonetheless.

Well, first it is not enuough to limit 4cx at all - look at the db sizes you talk about. 3cx is not exactly doing aynthing relevant with the database, from a db point of view - some minor inserts do not really cound, neither do the trivial queries it runs. YOu could possibly urn 3cx on dbase and a 286 computer without it getting into any sweat situation.

Your point is only valid if you accept totally irrelevant points as valid, and then I have a complaing about3cx not able to order piszza automatically - also a real complaint, you know. But just as irrelevant as it is not a real limit.

A far as the database backup goes... Remember Thona, 3CX is written so that anyone can install and run the software without having a dedicated IT person on staff to maintain it. Yes, SQL Server Express can be backed up through the use of some "clever" Transact-SQL scripts

You mean clever scripts like pressing a simple button? Nothing prevents 3cx from actually STILL having a backup application as they have now. here is no need for "clever transact SQL Script" ever to be exposed to the user. On top, not everyone would actually then have to use express. I have 2 real sq lservers here, hardware based - why not hook up on them? But anyhow, it was communicated to me 3cx would soonish (v7, v8) support multiple databases and non-local databases And a lot more things

 

[justin]

Wow....I'm not even gonna get involved in this thread/brawl :roll:

But I would like to point out that I already had 2 webservers running (Abyss Web Server & Apache) and installed 3cx with no problems or interference with the others.

 

[darrellchapman]

Thona,

You just don't get it. If none of those were concerns were valid than why wasn't 3CX originally developed to utilize them from the get-go? Although we all know they are migrating to MS technologies, there were valid reasons they chose postgres and Apache.

Your right on using SQL Server Workgroup/Standard/Enterprise. 3CX could utilize them as well but this is probably beyond the average user's capabilities (knowing the SA password, knowing whether it's a named instance or not, standard ports or not). 3CX needs a way to be installed with as little effort as possible. And that would require that they bundle SQL Server Express with the product.

As far is this thread goes, I'm done. I have a business to run.

 

[archie]

the SIP command channel is TCP based.

I'm really sorry, but I need to clarify: SIP is NOT TCP based. Default transport for SIP is UDP. Though it is possible to use SIP over TCP or TLS connections.

 

[darrellchapman]

Thanks for jumping in Archie...

 

[justin]

Thona,

You just don't get it. If none of those were concerns were valid than why wasn't 3CX originally developed to utilize them from the get-go? Although we all know they are migrating to MS technologies, there were valid reasons they chose postgres and Apache.

Your right on using SQL Server Workgroup/Standard/Enterprise. 3CX could utilize them as well but this is probably beyond the average user's capabilities (knowing the SA password, knowing whether it's a named instance or not, standard ports or not). 3CX needs a way to be installed with as little effort as possible. And that would require that they bundle SQL Server Express with the product.

As far is this thread goes, I'm done. I have a business to run.

Along with that having to integrate 3cx into an existing database would require a lot more effort in having to create the specific set of tables for 3cx and setting up server address/ports into 3cx so might not be the best option for people who own a small business, or use 3cx at home and just want a easy to install PBX. I'd say thats one of the main reasons I chose 3cx over Asterisk for Windows is the ease of use and setting up compared because I'm only using it at home for free calls with my VOIP provider The only thing I wish was that they would have a choice in the evaluation version and allow you to have 8 calls at once or 3 with G729 and FAX :lol:

 

[Henk]

Everthing happens for a reason, but I fail to see this one?

What is this all about, is it about the fact that 3CX was initially build on a "non native" Windows platform????

Who cares about the past, really I am more interested in the future versions. What platform, what DB ability and what development tools. Better, is it possible to make changes in the code (as you can do now) or is it all going to be closed up etc.

Nevertheless, as you where....

H.

 

[Henk]

Unbelievable.... :roll:

 

[justin]

Microsoft Office Accounting ($200/free product) and many other programs use mssql (express or msde) as the backend database and no one knows it. So I think on this forum there might be some misconception about this I just wanted to clarify. Installing mssql can be installed just like postgres in a setup program. (the behind the scenes work of adding tables and all that is totally automated by the application---just like 3cx is now)

Also, the other posts talking about not being able to backup witout knowing scripting is incorrect. Once again, MS Office accounting can be backed up right from within the program by any end user. We use other software using sql as a backend database that can very easily be backed up from within the program by non techinical people.

One of the many benefits of SQL is that all the SQL tools, report writers, monitoring tools, backup software can be used with it. So it can be very easy to install, but grow up to very power tool if the need arises.

There are also extremely nice webbased reporting tool included with SQL now called sql reporting services that we develope in. extremely nice, fits SMB and makes getting reports to every user a cinch.

I think using mssql (some free version of it) would make a lot of sense for 3cx. But I'm guessing 3cx won't change that mid-stride, and I can understand that.

Just some input from a MCDBA (microsft certified database administrator) ;-)

matt

I think 3cx installs another copy of postgre SQL even if there is one already installed. With MSSQL you would have to have the server already setup as 99% sure that microsofts policy would prevent redistribution of it's server software according to EULA.

 

[silentfun]

[quote="mattlandis
What machine are you running your 3cx on?

Matt[/quote]

sorry for the late replay


if i remember right i run it on a HP workstation WS X2100 1Gb RAMBUS 2,1 ghz W2K

by the way i host it at office again because i thought it where a hoster issue - first some days it was away then it came back ;-)


Andy

 

[silentfun]

About other database my opinion is that i would like if there is a mssql support.

but most important is that all what is developed already have to run like a charm - if not there has to be a table with issues (not only prevent multiple post´s - it is also a strait "Yes Sir we know" and possible the state of it like planed working testing on it or solved).

We set this table up in a database and all people tell us that they increase the trust in our will to handle and fix all isssues in a systematic way.

if anyone is interestet how we did i can post some screens. Sure it is not perfect because the ticket system is less the 3 month old but we work on a V2 in the next month to solve the needs we discovered in the past month.

Andy

 

[silentfun]

About other database my opinion is that i would like if there is a mssql support.

but most important is that all what is developed already have to run like a charm - if not there has to be a table with issues (not only prevent multiple post´s - it is also a strait "Yes Sir we know" and possible the state of it like planed working testing on it or solved).

We set this table up in a database and all people tell us that they increase the trust in our will to handle and fix all isssues in a systematic way.

if anyone is interestet how we did i can post some screens. Sure it is not perfect because the ticket system is less the 3 month old but we work on a V2 in the next month to solve the needs we discovered in the past month.

Andy

Andy,

i'm going to answer that in the expert forum...see the new post "issue list?"

matt

i found this whit a search but it seems it is removed by you or someone else. i get a "The requested topic does not exist." message
-----------------------------------------

v6-b612 known issues list--
Hello,

3cx, would it be appropiate if i posted my "know issues" list?
I would have interest in saving us all time.

If any other partners feel this would be helpful, post your vote.

tx all,
Mattby mattlandis
on Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:27 pm

Forum: Forum for 3CX Partners, Specialists, Experts & VP's (Tech support by 3CX)
Topic: v6-b612 known issues list--
Replies: 0
Views: 4
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the world is a realy dark place with many people that light a candle and even some people that blow them off - it is your choice to light or blow - it depends on how you like to orientate - by sight or by accident

 

[silentfun]

the world is a realy dark place with many people that light a candle and even some people that blow them off - it is your choice to light or blow - it depends on how you like to orientate - by sight or by accident

hi andy,

No, i didn't delete it...
I guess that means its not a good idea?

matt

i guess someone blow that candle :cry:

Andy