Migrating customer - can't work out how to reproduce Asterisk queue priorities

[NicholasBarnes]

First off, this is more likely than not my misunderstanding or lack of knowledge - I understand this and I apologise up front! Secondly, I'm not asking for somebody to solve this for me, but a gentle shove in the right direction would be very much appreciated.

It's a simple problem and a piece of cake to implement in Asterisk, so I can't imagine it's hard in 3cx either - just that I simply cannot work out how to do it!

Essentially, our customer wants to overflow calls to their external PA service, but continue to offer them to internal agents while the PA service is ringing. The external number does change, so it can't be hard-coded somewhere difficult to change.

In Asterisk it's just a case of creating a queue with the internal agents at number one priority and the PA service at another and then writing a rule to include different priorities as the call time progresses so, for example, priority 1 queue members ring for the first ten seconds and then priority 1 and 2 members ring for the next 30 seconds...

I've tried it with ring groups, but when extensions are busy, calls go to voicemail which I definitely don't want.
I've tried it with queues, but I can't work out either how to add an external number to a queue or how to put a delay on specific agents within the queue.
I've tried it with call flow builder, but can't see how to do this without transferring to either ring groups or queues, each with the problems listed above.

As I've said, this is more likely than not my misunderstanding - it's such a basic feature I must just be missing something.

Please could somebody point me in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance.

Nicholas

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Hi Nicholas,

Here is a useful tip: you can create a dummy extension to act as a forwarder.

This extension will have to be set up in Forwarding Rules to send all calls to the destination for your choice.

You can then define in your Queue settings, that the "Destination If No Answer" goes to that dummy extension.

 

[NicholasBarnes]

Thank you for the pointer.

Unfortunately it doesn't solve the problem - I don't want the dummy extension to ring on its own on timeout, I want that dummy extension to ring *and* the internal extensions that were ringing before.

So perhaps if I try two queues - one with the internal extensions and fails over to the second which has the internal and dummy extensions? This doesn't work either - Unfortunately I can't find a way of making the dummy extension log in and stay a permanent member of the queue let alone put a delay on its ringing. Even if it did work, the minimum 15 second queue time is too high :-(

 

[NicholasBarnes]

Just discovered... If I enter the PA's number as the mobile number of the dummy extension and then check the "Ring my mobile simultaneously" box, then the extension becomes available and I don't need to worry about the forwarding rules. Can't work out how to log it into a queue permanently, but maybe I can use ring groups instead...

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Queue calls will not follow the call forwards of a queue agent extension.

Ring my mobile simultaneously should accept calls from the queue for a dummy extension.

You can log it into a queue using the switchboard on the webclient. Queue login is usually permanent

 

[NicholasBarnes]

**posted before I read the reply above**

OK. That doesn't work either - even if an extension is set to forward when unavailable, it doesn't forward when it's rung from a ring group.
Last try is to set the forwarding number as the mobile for the dummy extension and then always ring mobile....

 

[NicholasBarnes]

So 'ring my mobile simultaneously' doesn't work from ring groups... Back to queues.

 

[NicholasBarnes]

...and that doesn't work either. The extension is logged into the queue but despite it having a green dot in 'extensions', it's shown as greyed out in the agents list for the queue and no calls are made out to that extension's mobile number.
Back to square one - everything I've tried has failed.
I'm really surprised about this - queue priorities are a fundamental requirement in the call centres we support, so we're not going to be able to sell 3cx into those customers :-(

 

[JohnS_3CX]

It may also be worth considering what the end goal is, and possibly rethinking the call flow if needed (rather than trying to emulate asterisk which is a different product at the end of the day)

I think it's worth gaining a good understanding what 3CX can do before you proceed.
This should prove quite useful, take your time with it:
https://www.3cx.com/3cxacademy/videos/advanced/call-queues/



PS: I have tested an unregistered (dummy) extension, set a mobile number to it (external dest.), and threw it in the queue. It rang just fine, but keep in mind that my outbound rules were configured to allow non-extensions (aka the system services) to also make outbound calls. Without this the forward will absolutely fail.

 

[NicholasBarnes]

I take your point, and I had read the material and watched the webinar. None of them covered the problem I was experiencing - the only aspect that could apply is skills based routing, but as the initial extensions will never be unavailable, calls wouldn't get to the PA at the next skill level and so this wouldn't apply.

However, all that aside, it occurred to me that maybe because I'd been trying different settings something had got gummed up - perhaps an old configuration value was being held somewhere. I deleted the dummy extension and queues and then re-created them with the same options/settings. The extension went into the queue as available this time (green bar, not grey, to the left on the switchboard) and outbound calls work now. I still can't see how I can achieve what I want with just one queue, but I can do it with two and if I make the second queue a priority, that should stop queue jumping too. This is not ideal as using only one queue is by far a better option, but it's a compromise.

Overall, my problem isn't about what Asterisk can do - it's about what the customer needs their phone system to do. Our selling point is "our phone systems fit your business, we don't force your business to fit the phone system". If I said to a customer "We can't do that, you need to re-think your call flow", we'd be sacked pretty damn smart. If I'm going to sell 3cx to existing customers, we need to be able to build systems according to their specifications. This specific feature is available on many other PBXs, not just Asterisk, and I honestly thought I was just missing something.

Anyway, thank you for your help. Reading betwene the lines, it seems that I have frustrated you and for this I apologise.

 

[JohnS_3CX]

Overall, my problem isn't about what Asterisk can do - it's about what the customer needs their phone system to do. Our selling point is "our phone systems fit your business, we don't force your business to fit the phone system". If I said to a customer "We can't do that, you need to re-think your call flow", we'd be sacked pretty damn smart. If I'm going to sell 3cx to existing customers, we need to be able to build systems according to their specifications. This specific feature is available on many other PBXs, not just Asterisk, and I honestly thought I was just missing something.

That was purely along the lines of a suggestion to possibly rethink. Saying it just from experience because I often see people trying to emulate the behavior of a previous system they replaced with 3CX, and obviously each system will have differences in the way things are done compared to other products.

Sometimes it's just simpler to consider the end goal and then build a solution with the tool you want to use. But I do agree that you should not tell that to the customer, and if their needs are specific to something this product doesn't do then there's not way around that understandably.

Anyway, thank you for your help. Reading betwene the lines, it seems that I have frustrated you and for this I apologise.

Not at all sir I am here to assist where I can

Apologies on my end if me replies hinted to that, I try to reply to as many people as I can so from time to time I might tend to dump raw links/info/screenshots to get you where you want to be at the expense of some refinement